Why should hire an electrican?

[George Stolz]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

Originally posted by bthielen:
As I indicated earlier, I would love to be able to tap into the well of knowledge that is contained on this website and get detailed information, pointers, and free training but it just wouldn't be fair.

Whoops.

I'm here for the free training.

There is a line somewhere, and I'm sure when it's crossed the thread will get locked.

At least people learned, read and thought while it was going. That's cool.

 

[physis]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

It is a fuzzy line sometimes. And it get stretched sometimes too.

 

[physis]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

By bthielen:

What I meant was that I saw the information you gave as crossing over that DIY how-to line and I was actually surprised our moderators allowed it to continue.

I should also mention that I agree with you on the second point. As far as the first point, I tried to stay on the right side of the line but won't argue that I may have been over.

[ July 15, 2005, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[rong111]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

as a neca member i only hire ibew workers.
however, that does not mean that there are not unlicensed workers that CAN do the same job. not having a peice of paper does not disqualify someone from being competent.

but the problem is that this information is readily available to people that THINK they know what they are doing. therin lies the really scary problem! they THINK they know what they are doing. so they are assuring themselves that there are going to be no problems and assume they are competent.

these same people might fill a passenger car tire to 80 psi exploding the rim and killing themselves. because they were personally sure it took 80 psi! at least i'd have to say using neca/ibew members you should almost certainly be avoiding a situation like this!

if you are not formally trained or have in field experience how can you assure yourself that you REALLY know what you are doing? this is not a stab at arjo, but to anyone. you read the nec and THINK you understand it with no previous hands on experience? the nec is a guide to proper practices. not a wiring manual for diy! thank the mighty one that in these days of the horrible orange company they may be able to sell three phase ocpd but they still cannot sell the nec handbook! they do sell uglys though.
how many times do i go there and see a cart loaded with breakers spools of wire j-boxes emt and uglys on top. scarry to say the least.

i never hear a handyman or homeowner say "i am a structtrual engineer or architect". so why are they all electricians?


i think the nfpa should add don't play with electricity to don't play with matches!

be safe.
ron g.

 

[rattus]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

I just advised a neighbor to get an electrician to repair a burned up neutral in a daisy chain. As an engineer, I can diagnose the problem easily enough and could even fix it, but it would take me ten times as long, and the job would be illegal. I like my neighbors too much to attempt such a thing.

 

[petersonra]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

Originally posted by georgestolz:

I'm here for the free training.

Me too. I have learned an enormous amount in the short few months I have been here.

 

[physis]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

I've learned tons here. And I'm constantly challenged to learn more just to keep up.

 

[amptech]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

"as a neca member i only hire ibew workers.
however, that does not mean that there are not unlicensed workers that CAN do the same job. not having a peice of paper does not disqualify someone from being competent"

Just to clarify, you don't have to be an IBEW member to hold a license.

 

[southernboys]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

Hey rong I truely hope you dont think you have to be IBEW to be a good electrician. Some of the best electricians I know are nonIBEW. AS a matter of fact I dont know any IBEW electricians. However this does not mean that just because you can buy the material you know how to do the job. Here is proof that the nec is not a howto guide Art 90.1c

 

[GG]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

wow, what a thread.

[ July 16, 2005, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: GG ]

 

[bthielen]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

Well, one thing that I am sure of. Without a doubt, this website has certainly increased the understanding for those that participate whether actively or passively. I can't help but believe that we work more safely as a result. I think it is a credit to those that created and manage this site.

Great job!

Bob

 

[rong111]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

i know there are great liscensed electrical workers that are non-union. using union labor is simply a preference.

on the other hand there are many non-liscensed folks that think they can do electrical work and create real dangerous situations. i just hate to see todays superstores make homeowners feel that installing a panel is like screwing a light bulb etc. you don't even need a liscense to actually know what you are doing. but it is at least some indicator of ones knowledge.

edit: i wanted to add that this board has also been a tremendous resource for me as well. the thing is i work in this field. the information that is available just about anywhere will not nescesarily make someone that does not know what they are doing better off.
hence the original topic of this post. many people think they can do something and can't. there are different trades for a reason. not just to create jobs as some homeowners may think.


ron g.

[ July 18, 2005, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: rong111 ]

 

[petersonra]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

Many HOs can safely tackle a lot of projects that they indeed can and do safely and successfully complete.

OTOH, there are some that should not be allowed to own a pair of wire strippers.

I am not real sure where that line has to be drawn.

I feel pretty confident that I can do most simple electrical repairs (such as replacing a light bulb or a switch that has failed), but there are some things I do not even want to attempt to tackle (like installing a new service).

I am not real sure where in between those two extremes I would draw my own personal line in the sand.

In the past my schedule has often dictated hiring out things I might otherwise have done myself (not just electrical work, but even such things as lawn mowing).

 

[bthielen]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

The purpose of this site has been spelled out a number of times and that is to help individuals in the electrical and electrically related industries have a better understanding of the NEC and safe work practices around electricity. To that end this site serves well.

It is certainly understandable why this site should not become a "how-to" forum, first for safety sake and second for liability. To get an example of how difficult it can be, find someone you know that has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about electricity or wiring a duplex receptacle and then try to explain it to them in writing without pictures and see if they get it right. You'll quickly find that either you won't be able to find the right words to explain it well enough or they won't be able to comprehend the language well enough.

It's amazing how many times I have had to help someone troubleshoot wiring issues over the phone only to find it a lost cause. They have wiring diagrams in front of them and I still had difficulty getting them to follow me as I explained it to them. For all I knew they were reading them upside-down. You have to literally take them step by step, tab A into Slot B and it can still be all but hopeless without that basic electrical background knowledge.

Bob

 

[petersonra]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

it is often frustrating to do the phone support thing, but it is much less frstrating than getting on an airplane to go out and do it in person.

 

[bthielen]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

Been there and done that too!

My position here for about the past 15 years or so has been primarily modification and redesign of existing equipment instead of new machinery. This joins me at the hip with our field service and technical support group and when the projects get a little more complicated or our tech support group is short-handed, yours truly is quite often called on at last minute. The challenge can be rewarding as well as a headache from time to time but in either case it is interesting to say the least.

I have encountered many types of people. Some have very good constructive ideas that I have been able to use myself.

What I have found to be my most reliable source of information and ideas has not necessarily been technically trained persons, such a maintenance or electricians, but rather the machinery operators. They may not know much about electronic controls and electricity but they do know the machinery.

Bob

 

[petersonra]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

the operators often have insights into the machines or other systems that are very helpful.

they also often have unique views about what is going on when things are not working right. often you have to look at it from their point of view to figure out what is really going on.

they tend to look at things from a very different perspective. if you can force your mind into that same perspective, sometimes things just jump right out at you that otherwsie might take a while to come to you.

 

[highkvoltage]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

arjo_reich, bthielem and all the other self taught butchers and hacks that believe they can learn the trade from reading a book. Do you people realize to just save a few pennies and boast to your friends "Who needs those high paid electrican , I did this myself" you are putting you family, neighbors and any one that stays in your fire hazard at risk? As far as the clown that is going to inspect your work if he not an EC then he should be ashamed. I hope you have a good insurance policy and I will offer no advice to your sort. Anyone here that is helping this penny pincher should also be ashamed and I hope when this fool post back that he is having problems or worse his house burnt down. I hope he didn't print your advice out because you are now subject for a law suit. It is amazing how this forum is suppose to be for PROFESSIONALS in are GREAT trade and how it has have sank to this level. I think tomorrow I'll read a book on how to build a nuclear bomb anyone know a website I can reference. Drawing prints to wire a house should tell you there is a problem. I have changed my mind here is some free advice "They make different color wire "NUTS". I will guarantee that when he is done he will be telling everyone he knows how to do electrical wiring and how easy it is only to create more hazards.

[ July 18, 2005, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: highkvoltage ]

 

[physis]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

arjo_reich, bthielem and all the other self taught butchers and hacks that believe they can learn the trade from reading a book.

I'm about as close to 100% self taught as you can you can get. Didn't stay in college long enough to get further than some math. Never really had any kind of apprenticeship in electronics or electrical. Maybe that's why I'm a little more sympathetic to people who want to learn than some others.

Am I a butcher or a hack? I guess so.

you are putting you family, neighbors and any one that stays in your fire hazard at risk

This assertion is by no means automatically true. And I think it's a little over the top. The DIY policy isn't there because everytime a non-electrical professional thinks about electricity someone gets hurt. It's there because there's a possibility. There's a difference.

It is amazing how this forum is suppose to be for PROFESSIONALS in are GREAT trade and how it has have sank to this level

This forum is still only for professionals in the electrical and related industries. When arjo_reich started his questions were code based. When it became obvious that he was DIY'ing he stopped receiving help.

I will guarentee that when he is done he will be telling everyone he knows how to do electrical wiring and how easy it is only to create more hazards.

Based on the fact that he does have some degree of code knowledge I would suggest that he would be lying if he told anybody how "easy it is". Learning code alone is "not easy". And there's a lot more to do than just that.

The DIY policy is only a reason to not give DIY'ers information on this forum. It's not a reason to hate people or be angry about people who wish to work on their property within the law.

[ July 18, 2005, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Why should hire an electrican?

I am locking this thread before it gets more personal.