Wire Connectors

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Besoeker said:
I made no such comment.
Can we please keep this civil and just stick to facts please?
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Let's use a logical progression here.

I made a claim. I said that wire nuts are just as reliable as terminal blocks when installed correctly. You plainly disagreed with me in post 39. Your disagreement with my statement means that you believe that wire nuts are not as reliable. Therefore, terminal blocks are superior because they are more reliable.

Please correct me where I have erred. And while we are at it, state what you believe about wire nuts.
 
peter d said:
Let's use a logical progression here.

I made a claim. I said that wire nuts are just as reliable as terminal blocks when installed correctly. You plainly disagreed with me in post 39. Your disagreement with my statement means that you believe that wire nuts are not as reliable. Therefore, terminal blocks are superior because they are more reliable.
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What I was disagreeing with was this:

with far less labor and take up less room.
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I apologise. I should have made it clearer for you.
Can we leave it at that?
 
Didn't think I'd see nine pages on wire nuts. But then I didn't think I'd see what I did when I asked for clarification on two phases 180 degree apart vs. phase inversion/negation (or whatever so lets not start again). So who knows what to expect!

So, my 64K question, since I made a comment about seeing problems with wire nuts and stranded THHN. Do you pre-twist or not?

Me? In all cases I strip all wires an equal amount and line up the ends of the insulation. If it is all solid wire I will pre-twist. That is just what I was taught, to make a good mechanical joint. If it is all stranded I don't pre-twist at all (okay I might a little by hand if it is only two wires especially if differing AWG). I also trim ends to equal length being installing wire nut.

I've seen a lot of things over the years and always been on the MRO side, so I remove darn near as many as I install. Those old Scotchlocks were a pain to remove (had to squeeze them with Kliens), but I never saw them fail. I typically have bought the Ideal wing nuts but have seen the plastic split and/or melt. I do like the mechanical set screw types. Many years ago they had ones with little rubber "beanies" that had a tail with a loop that you pulled through the crotch and looped over the head (hard to explain but if you have seen them you know what I mean, but I ain't seen them in many decades).

I tell you another thing I see fail too often....and you guys are going to hate me. Polaris taps, especially in outdoor wet locations. I have a lot of 480 volt outdoor lighting circuits in concrete pull boxes in the ground. A decent hurricane has them all full of salt water. Split bolts and rubber/silicone splicing tape held up fine fine. I liked crimped connectors and heavy wall adhesive lined polyolefin heat shrink even better. Seriously PO'ed me when they ripped all my work out and some electrical contractors use silicone filled Polaris taps. Stuff has burnt up/melted and lit me up so many times it isn't funny. Sometimes just from kneeling next to a box that has steam escaping from the lid, LOL.

Okay rant over. Lets just say I'm more of a tried and true, as opposed to new and improved, type of guy. AKA a grumpy old man.
 
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MAC702 said:
Not everything must be pigtailed. Some must be; MWBC devices, for instance.
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But always a good idea where doable. I pigtail all my switches and all receptacles except GFCI's that protect others.
 
MAC702 said:
I won't argue an opinion. You are certainly free to do so.
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I've had very few callbacks and I think pigtailing has helped that a lot. It lightens loads; each device only carries its own load, lessening wear on it. I also refuse to backstab. That is a major source of problems.
 
Russs57 said:
Didn't think I'd see nine pages on wire nuts. But then I didn't think I'd see what I did when I asked for clarification on two phases 180 degree apart vs. phase inversion/negation (or whatever so lets not start again). So who knows what to expect!
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You do realize that the merest mention of this subject attracts fellas like me....

It is neither a polarity inversion, AC has no fixed polarity, or a phase shift due to timing.

It simply is the way the two 120V sine waves are measured/shown given the neutral as a common reference. One can pick other references.

The negation or -1 formula was applicable, but not really needed. We were focusing on sine waves or at least I was.
 
jumper said:
You do realize that the merest mention of this subject attracts fellas like me....

It is neither a polarity inversion, AC has no fixed polarity, or a phase shift due to timing.

It simply is the way the two 120V sine waves are measured/shown given the neutral as a common reference. One can pick other references.

The negation or -1 formula was applicable, but not really needed. We were focusing on sine waves or at least I was.
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Ok Fella like you, you better don't turn this into a 150 page debate on 120v-240V-120V (I refuse to give it a name):happyno::p
 
Russs57 said:
But then I didn't think I'd see what I did when I asked for clarification on two phases 180 degree apart vs. phase inversion/negation (or whatever so lets not start again).
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Yeah. I won that one. :D

So, my 64K question, since I made a comment about seeing problems with wire nuts and stranded THHN. Do you pre-twist or not?
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When joining stranded conductors, I twist each wire neatly, then join them like I would solids. If joining two or three stranded to solids, I may twist the stranded wires together first, then treat them as a single wire. I always do this with fixture wires.
 
debates that last longer than 5 minutes are not debates any longer.. :) i know people who would argue about what you had for dinner last night.. but it sure is entertainment... a few years back someone stated about arguing what time the sun rises... i like that! neil degrasse tyson has some interesting opinions on debates.

me myself, i like using whatever the boss buys or what the customer wants... and as far as stranded goes- now this is my opinion folks... i think stripping less insulation than solid keeps the strands tighter together.

can wires be terminated side by side in those term strips? if the strip can be trimmed i assume that they cannot be terminated that way. and do they have little plugs to cover the live term screw?
 
Besoeker said:
You are not limited to one in, one out.
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There are a lot of posts on this thread so I am sorry if I missed one. I like the Ideal barrier strips, we used them regularly for fire alarm applications, but that is one in one out. I don't see how it can be used to, for example, tie 5 #12 wires together. I looked at the documentation and I only see listing for a single wire on each terminal. How do you use them to join multiple wires together?
 
Strathead said:
There are a lot of posts on this thread so I am sorry if I missed one. I like the Ideal barrier strips, we used them regularly for fire alarm applications, but that is one in one out. I don't see how it can be used to, for example, tie 5 #12 wires together. I looked at the documentation and I only see listing for a single wire on each terminal. How do you use them to join multiple wires together?
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TBH, we rarely used them for anything. They generally wouldn't be acceptable in industrial control panels. But it isn't a problem to connect a number of wires together. These terminals come in different sizes and you can chop then down to however many ways you want/need.

Could you tie 5 #12 wires together in one wire nut? Just asking.
 
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