Wiring Diagrams included with industrial electrical design packages

[Strathead]

a sewer plant is a lot different than a typical industrial plant. it is not unusual for an industrial plant to have state of the art equipment that has never been made before. pretty hard not to do a lot of design as you go for that kind of thing. and a lot of times requirements change as people realize that may be there is a better way as the plant is being put together. that is part of what the integrators and OEMs are there for.

Agreed 100%, but at the very beginning of this thread, the implication was an Engineer, wanting to produce design drawings that didn't discourage competition and limit product selection. The type of project you are describing would be foolish to approach from this direction. In this type of project you select a team and work toward a goal, not design a project for hard bid and then demand precise construction. So that is why I am confused about what the OP is actually asking.

I think the bottom line is that the construction industry has gotten so convoluted in the last 20 years that, nobody wants to actually pay for anything and it always rolls down to the bottom. this isn't any one person's fault, and in fact I give those above me (being on the bottom) understanding. Designers are really paid enough to produce real designed drawings and specs. Contractors aren't given enough information to produce real precise construction, customers only know that someone will always do it for less and fail to realize there is value in getting the front end right because once it is done, they are the ones who will live with it.

I find that really simple things are o often overlooked. Like don't put a fire alarm device in the middle of a lobby wall, or pay attention to how the occupant is going to enter and exit so that light switching makes sense. Or how many people use a receptacle on the door entry wall of a 10 x 10 office. The list goes on.

 

[mull982]

One final question I have is related to how others incorporate OEM drawings into their deign package. For instance if you are putting together a design package with your own site plans, One-Lines, etc... but then have an OEM drawing which shows controls/schematics for a given part of the design how do you incorporate that drawing into your package?

Do you simply copy the OEM drawing and paste your border around the drawing (assuming you have OEM drawing in CAD format) and use it as is in your package, or do you re-create the drawing so that the text, symbols, etc.. match your legend and drawing formatting? Or are there other ways to accomplish this such as referencing it as part of an Annex to your package.

Was just curious what the accepted practice is for using drawings created by others in your design package.

Thanks for all the great feedback!

 

[petersonra]

One final question I have is related to how others incorporate OEM drawings into their deign package. For instance if you are putting together a design package with your own site plans, One-Lines, etc... but then have an OEM drawing which shows controls/schematics for a given part of the design how do you incorporate that drawing into your package?

Do you simply copy the OEM drawing and paste your border around the drawing (assuming you have OEM drawing in CAD format) and use it as is in your package, or do you re-create the drawing so that the text, symbols, etc.. match your legend and drawing formatting? Or are there other ways to accomplish this such as referencing it as part of an Annex to your package.

Was just curious what the accepted practice is for using drawings created by others in your design package.

Thanks for all the great feedback!

I usually just reference the other drawings, and show the interface points.

 

[Tony S]

One problem we ran in to with OEM equipment was “non standard” ancillary gear.

We had a range of common spares that matched all plants on the works. The specification would list acceptable components, etc. So many failed to take notice and weren’t happy when told to change everything before acceptance.
“We always use them.” “We don’t.”

 

[sevlander]

Electrician/engineering designer

Electrician/engineering designer

I worked with the tools for 35 years. I did industrial, commercial work mainly and a lot of motor control. I welcomed every bit of information I received on a drawing. Point to point diagrams were cut and dried as far as I was concerned. We're there times a point to point was not necessary,yes, but having it never hurt and often cleared up any confusion.
Now that I myself do much of the design I try to put as much detail into a design as possible. My boss who is a PE wants to often note things and leave it to the contractors descretion. I tell him this is why contractors hate engineers. The contractors will re-evaluate and redesign as needed anyway, but the more you tell them upfront the more chance the job will go in as designed originally shown.
I believe the type of job may dictate what information is supplied . For example we have done sewer treatment plants where all the controllers and components were decided and specified before the contractor purchased a thing. Knowing every piece of equipment allows a point to point connection diagram and I believe is helpful to the installer.
It's a is toss up, but I say when the information is know, share it and let the installer decide.