Bath receptacle in bathtub space???

[1793]

It does not say directly above the bathtub area or decking ,...it says what it says ,"directly over a bathtub"
What happend to Charlie's rule ??

Point taken!

 

[mthead]

Bath receptacle in bathtub space???

One last thing to consider --
the most common complaint an inspector will here is that he should enforce the code as written--it is not upto him to interpret code or "use his head and consider intent"--be careful what you wish for --that same inspector could do what you ask for and begin counting staples an take out his tape measure to check that raceways and conductors are secured as required -to the letter.
So where do you want an inspector to come from?
This is a rhetorical question--I was an electrician before I became an inspector and all I can say is we all[everyone in our field,insp,elc,engineer,] can learn something new every day,and thats how I approach any job.

 

[M. D.]

.....2002nec-406.8[C]Bathtub and shower space.
A recptacle shall not be installed within a bathtub or shower space.
2002nec410.4[D]bathtub and shower areas=3'horizontally from waters edge;8'vertical from waters surface.

While the naysayers will argue that 410.4 applies specifically to luminaires an inspector will calmly explain that " the bathtub area/zone referenced in 406.8" is only defined in 410.4.

Perhaps you missed this from the code making panel in regard to a proposal wanting a 3' measurement?? It is different and they made that way on purpose .

Panel Statement:Section 406.8(C) is intended to be different from 410.4(D).
Cord-connected and similar luminaries are required to be grounded and are not
required to be protected by GFCIs. They are, however, prohibited from being
installed near or above a tub or shower zone. Receptacles, on the other hand,
are required to be both grounded and protected by a GFCI. Further, they are
required to be installed at the sink location. In many bathrooms, it is impossible
to install a receptacle if it is also prohibited from being installed within 3 feet
horizontally of a shower or tub.

 

[electricmanscott]

And I would thank you for your cooperation and readily sign off once you moved it to the front as permitted in 210.52(D) Exception. :smile:

Yeah, good luck with that. It ain't happening, sign off or get the hell out and send in an inspector that knows what they are doing.

This is not that difficult folks. (well for most of us anyway) First grade reading level.

No receptacles directly over a bathtub. That receptacle is not. Have a nice day.

 

[wbalsam1]

I wonder what "suggestions" he would give if a wall light were installed in a shower stall subject to shower spay and everything

This remark appears to me to be downright nasty and mean spirited. At the least very sourcastic.

 

[wbalsam1]

Yeah, good luck with that. It ain't happening, sign off or get the hell out and send in an inspector that knows what they are doing.

This is not that difficult folks. (well for most of us anyway) First grade reading level.

No receptacles directly over a bathtub. That receptacle is not. Have a nice day.

Ouch! Remind me not to get on your bad side.....

 

[sandsnow]

????

Your building offical can change the rules at will?


Thats sucks for ECs.

Well it doesn't happen without a lot of investigation, such as reading ROP's etc. It is however his job as the AHJ to make interps of the rules.

The rough on this job has been signed off (assuming here), so it would seem the point is moot at final. The call has already been made. No fair calling something that was approved in rough.

One thing about this is a receptacle will never be directly over the tub unless it is mounted on the ceiling.

 

[M. D.]

This remark appears to me to be downright nasty and mean spirited. At the least very sourcastic.

The only time I want a " suggestion " like that is if I ask for it ... I do not appreciate an inspector who interferes with my relationship with the customer and the ability for me to provide for my family .
This is kind of interferance is not welcome unless it is invited

I can help the installer and the homeowner consider what's necessary for safety.

Write it up if you think it is a violation , talk to me about it and when ,..as in this case,. you are wrong recognize it .

I just find it hard to believe this "inspector" would not have " suggestions " in regard to a code compliant light fixture installed in direct shower spray in a shower stall ... when the same inspector would fail that location for a receptacle . .. Good Grief

 

[electricmanscott]

Ouch! Remind me not to get on your bad side.....

This isn't about being on my bad side, this is aboout inspector (in)competence.

If I install a receptacle in a legal location, I do not want, need, or appreciate the inspector suggesting that I move it to where he wants it and then he'll sign off. Inspect, sign off and scram. That's all I want and that's all you should be doing.

Oh yeah here is a reminder for you....don't get on my bad side..:grin:

 

[dnem]

How far away from this baby David

The debate is about 406.8(C) which doesn't have any measurement that refers to "how far away". . If it said how far away, then we might be talking about an actual safety issue.

But for code compliance, your picture is an easy call. . I don't see a "stall" in the picture so we don't have to interpret if "stall" applies to bathtub.

David

 

[lpelectric]

In an effort to start the day out right, I yield to electricmanscott & M.D. who have convinced me of the error(s) of my ways.
The "doublespeak" was caused from changing my mind due to post # 44 from iwire. This made sense.
Those posters that helped me to remember that the code is what it is, not what I think it is, I note special attention to and thank you for your helpful reminders.
I've been working with such an amenable bunch of electricians lately, that have jumped on all my "suggestions" that I've developed a bit of "arrogance" unintentionally. Thanks for the wake up call.
The only thing that I'll now say in my defence is the old adage "it's better to err on the side of good judgement". Of course, it's better judgement to follow the code. :smile:
There. Crow doesn't taste that bad after all.

 

[inspector 102]

I am not sure whether it has been mentioned yet, but the International Residential Code has requirements for clearance between the tub unit and a lavatory. The 4" clearance is intended to allow enogh space between fixtures to allow proper cleaning. If there had been a space provided between these fixtures, I do not think the receptacle placement would have even been an issue.

 

[lpelectric]

I am not sure whether it has been mentioned yet, but the International Residential Code has requirements for clearance between the tub unit and a lavatory. The 4" clearance is intended to allow enogh space between fixtures to allow proper cleaning. If there had been a space provided between these fixtures, I do not think the receptacle placement would have even been an issue.

Where is this in the IRC? :smile: I've been unable to find it.

 

[M. D.]

In an effort to start the day out right, I yield to electricmanscott & M.D. who have convinced me of the error(s) of my ways.
The "doublespeak" was caused from changing my mind due to post # 44 from iwire. This made sense.
Those posters that helped me to remember that the code is what it is, not what I think it is, I note special attention to and thank you for your helpful reminders.

You are most wellcome,.. now on to this bathtubstall notion:wink:

 

[Kontrols]

As long as the recepticle is GFCI and conveineint to the sink (which it is) I see no issues. In fact it is required not only as a bathroom recepticle but also under NEC 680.71 to be within 5' of the tub.

 

[Kontrols]

I think it is fine!

I think it is fine!

As long as it is a GFCI I see no problem. In fact, because it is a Jacuzzi tub it must be within 5' of the inside of the tub (NEC 2005 680.72) and it appears to meet the requirement for the bathroom sink also.

The only remaining issues is whether it is conveinent for its purpose and whether "one" plug can meet the bathroom GFCI and Hydromassage GFCI and I think so although there are some inspectors who are not so flexible.

 

[M. D.]

Where is this in the IRC? :smile: I've been unable to find it.

All I found was this ,...and that Is not an NEC issue:smile:

The minimum distance between a wall and the edge of a freestanding or wall-hung lavatory is 4". (IRC R 307.1)

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...um=1&hl=en&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2007-39,GGLG:en&sa=N

 

[M. D.]

Here is a link with lots of pictures I don't see Four inches anywhere I think even the IRC folks would have to allow the tub placement .

http://www.nkba.org/guidelines/bathroom_4.aspx

 

[dnem]

As long as the recepticle is GFCI and conveineint to the sink (which it is) I see no issues. In fact it is required not only as a bathroom recepticle but also under NEC 680.71 to be within 5' of the tub.

As long as it is a GFCI I see no problem. In fact, because it is a Jacuzzi tub it must be within 5' of the inside of the tub (NEC 2005 680.72) and it appears to meet the requirement for the bathroom sink also.

The only remaining issues is whether it is conveinent for its purpose and whether "one" plug can meet the bathroom GFCI and Hydromassage GFCI and I think so although there are some inspectors who are not so flexible.

Better take another look at hydromassage whirlpools. . 680.72 doesn't apply and 680.71 doesn't either require or exclude any plugs. . All it says is that any plug within 6' of the tub must be GFCI protected.

David

 

[M. D.]

All it says is that any plug within 6' of the tub must be GFCI protected.

David

and if it is GfCI protected it can be real close to the tub,... just can't be directly over it ..:grin: