Do I have to upgrade to AFCI's?

[danam96]

If I change a receptacle in an existing home, do I have to replace it with an AFCI if it is in a bedroom? Or can I replace with regular duplex?

 

[George Stolz]

No, the device has changed, not the outlet. The outlet is not new, so there is no "outlet" installed. If an outlet has not been installed, there is none to AFCI protect.

 

[infinity]

It also depends on where you are and what code cycle your jurisdiction follows. Around here the use of AFCI devices is optional.

 

[Minuteman]

It also depends on where you are and what code cycle your jurisdiction follows. Around here the use of AFCI devices is optional.

Trevor, you can get AFCI devices? I thought that AFCI only come in OCP right now.

 

[resistance]

If I change a receptacle in an existing home, do I have to replace it with an AFCI if it is in a bedroom? Or can I replace with regular duplex?

No! But this raises another question: does the home have a means for grounding? If not, then you cannot replace a non-grounding type receptacle with a grounding type receptacle. Yet, you can install a GFCI receptacle; GFCI breaker, or another non-grounding type receptacle and meet code requirements. No need to install an AFCI OCPD, if you are not installing a new bedroom circuit.

Question: Is there an AFCI receptacle??

 

[macmikeman]

No need to install an AFCI OCPD, if you are not installing a new bedroom circuit.

Question: Is there an AFCI receptacle??

There is not any afci receptacle device sold on the market at this time to my knowledge.

 

[infinity]

Trevor, you can get AFCI devices? I thought that AFCI only come in OCP right now.

You're correct, I seemed to imply that you could use a AFCI receptacle which no one makes as of yet. I was thinking of an AFCI breaker. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[arniebuteft]

I think this will depend on your jurisdiction's rules. Around here, you have to upgrade your service ampacity before any rules apply to making changes to other parts of the house, i.e. GFCIs in garages, basements, AFCIs in bedroom circuits, etc. If you're just replacing equipment, adding new branch circuits, you only have to meet code on the new work, and you don't worry about anything old.

 

[cpal]

This might be a good time to raise the question as to weither an extension of an of an existing bed room branch circuit will require the installation of an afci

I vote yes!( for the sake of argument)

Charlie

 

[al hildenbrand]

This might be a good time to raise the question as to whether an extension of an of an existing bed room branch circuit will require the installation of an afci

The wording is, essentially, any new outlet in a bedroom gets AFCI protection.

The "extension of an existing bedroom circuit", alone, does not offer the key piece of information. . .is the extension to a new outlet inside, or outside, of a bedroom?

If the extension of the existing circuit is to a new outlet in a bed, then the OCPD must be upgraded to an AFCI.

 

[cpal]

Al
As I mentioned i agree

Charlie

 

[resistance]

********This might be a good time to raise the question as to weither an extension of an of an existing bedroom branch circuit will require the installation of an afci***********



I do not believe extending a branch circuit (installed before the AFCI requirment--in some juridictions) falls under the AFCI requirements. Yet, the rules will apply if a new bedroom circuit is installed. Just something to think about:Extending a branch circuit that was installed as multi-circuit. (before the AFCI)


If extending off K/T then other articles will apply, and if the load is more than what was already on the K/T, then you may not be able to extend K/T.

 

[cpal]

"I do not believe extending a branch circuit (installed before the AFCI requirment--in some juridictions) falls under the AFCI requirements. Yet, the rules will apply if a new bedroom circuit is installed. Just something to think about:Extending a branch circuit that was installed as multi-circuit. (before the AFCI)"


Here in lies the problem and hopefully logic will prevail,

How do you feel if an existing bedroom circuit is extended to supply multi station smokes in a dwelling, to each bedroom of that dwelling. I believe that it was prviously established that the smokes in fact are required to be on the AFCI.
(there is no hidden agenda in these quetions)
Charlie

 

[al hildenbrand]

Yet, the rules will apply if a new bedroom circuit is installed.

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection
(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

It's the installation of the OUTLET that makes a circuit AFCI. . .

 

[cpal]

I,m going to have to leave but I thought I might throw one more thought at conversation

The point that Al makes is in force as of the 05 NEC but look at the wording change in the 08 Draft

(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits installed in dwelling units shall
be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination
type installed to provide protection of the branch
circuit. [ROP 2?105, 2?142, 2?111]

What do you think

Charlie

 

[resistance]

To insure the proper function of the smoke detectors, I would require a new circuit to the smoke detectors.

-If it's K/T you shouldn't be adding any new loads (K/T has a temp rating)
-If it's wiring before the AFCI, then we would need to find out if the circuit meets AFCI requirements before installing the new smokes. Mainly making sure the circuit is not a multi-circuit.

 

[resistance]

*******It's the installation of the OUTLET that makes a circuit AFCI******

It's the location that makes it a requirement to be AFCI protected. Location is key. Al, Art. 210.12 makes room for interpretation from the AHJ. Do you agree?

Yet, to add a receptacle should not require a person to make the "circuit" AFCI protected. This goes back to what I said in the begin. In addition, I can't see an Inspector enforcing Art. 210.12 for someone wanting to add a receptacle in place of a receptacle?

Extending or adding to a circuit does has some issues, and it all depends on what's exsiting.



To add: Al, what's your definition of Outlet. Just wondering! Thanks! Great insight!

 

[arniebuteft]

what's your definition of Outlet. Just wondering! Thanks! Great insight!

Just look to Art. 100, "Outlet: A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment."

Along with "Utilization Equipment: Equipment that utilizes electric energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating, lighting, or similar purposes."

That's a pretty broad definition!

 

[al hildenbrand]

what's your definition of Outlet.

Quite simply the Article 100 language attached to Outlet definition.

It is deceptively short. Yet, previous discussions have shown how elusive and debatable the meaning is.

To me, an outlet is the boundary at which the wiring of a structure ends and the beginning of the conductive path that is not the wiring of the structure begins.

 

[resistance]

Cpal, I'm neutral on the change. I hope the manufactures plan to lower the price of AFCI's. We are having a hard enough time trying to pitch estimates with todays prices.