Electrician upset with inspection

[lpelectric]

I did an inspection of a 1 family dwelling a while back and found these items:

• Kitchen lighting on with small appliance bc
• Flexible cord used for every circulator at the boiler rather than a permanent wiring method
• Csst not bonded to the GES (plumber's responsibility)
• Duplex receptacle used for the clothes washing machine in the basement on concrete floor. (either use a single receptacle, or gfci protect the duplex)
• Same as above for sump pump
• Only 1 outside gfci protected receptacle for the whole house

Electrician mad about me raising these points. Wanted to argue about why code was ridiculous. :smile:

 

[480sparky]

I did an inspection of a 1 family dwelling a while back and found these items:

• Kitchen lighting on with small appliance bc
• Flexible cord used for every circulator at the boiler rather than a permanent wiring method
• Csst not bonded to the GES (plumber's responsibility)
• Duplex receptacle used for the clothes washing machine in the basement on concrete floor. (either use a single receptacle, or gfci protect the duplex)
• Same as above for sump pump
• Only 1 outside gfci protected receptacle for the whole house

Electrician mad about me raising these points. Wanted to argue about why code was ridiculous. :smile:

Show him what would be page 825 of the '08 (page numbers only go to 822, so flip the next page).

Have him copy that form and submit his proposals like the rest of us do. If he can get the Code changed to his liking, more power to him!

Otherwise, give him a pacifier or a bottle.

 

[peter d]

But I'm sure that's how he's always done it, and he probably never had a problem before!

 

[480sparky]

But I'm sure that's how he's always done it, and he probably never had a problem before!

Mebbe 'cuzz dis is his first inspection?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Are you sure he was an electrician ?Those are violations for many many years.I hope you inspected deeply cause if he messed up on this there likely is far more violations.

 

[lpelectric]

Mebbe 'cuzz dis is his first inspection?

You're right in a way, this is his 1st inspection, because his "favorite" inspector is no longer allowed in town! :grin:

 

[celtic]

Mebbe 'cuzz dis is his first inspection?

...and maybe his last?

 

[emahler]

I did an inspection of a 1 family dwelling a while back and found these items:

• Duplex receptacle used for the clothes washing machine in the basement on concrete floor. (either use a single receptacle, or gfci protect the duplex)

• 
  
  i'm not arguing with the single or gfi part, but what what section of the code differentiates a concrete floor from anything else...

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I did an inspection of a 1 family dwelling a while back and found these items:

• Csst not bonded to the GES (plumber's responsibility)
• Duplex receptacle used for the clothes washing machine in the basement on concrete floor. (either use a single receptacle, or gfci protect the duplex)
• Same as above for sump pump
• :smile:

1. Around here, CSST bonding is the electricians job.
2. GFI for washing machine only if within 6' of a sink.
3. Can't find it now but I thought sump pumps were exempt from GFI requirement.......All in my opinion of couse......

 

[lpelectric]

i'm not arguing with the single or gfi part, but what what section of the code differentiates a concrete floor from anything else...

in the sense of "unfinished", 210.8(A)(5)
for a better understanding I always point out the exceptions as a way to clarify the intent of the rule. :smile:

 

[lpelectric]

[/list]1. Around here, CSST bonding is the electricians job.
2. GFI for washing machine only if within 6' of a sink.
3. Can't find it now but I thought sump pumps were exempt from GFI requirement.......All in my opinion of couse......

This is a duplex which means that 1/2 of the receptacle would be available for general purpose use. In an unfinished basement application, this would require GFCI protection....same with the other 1/2 of the sump receptacle....:smile:

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

OK....so in this case, a single recept would be legal for both applications. If the laundry room was in the basement in a framed in area with a concrete floor and no sink, then I could have a duplex without GFI protection?

 

[lpelectric]

OK....so in this case, a single recept would be legal for both applications. If the laundry room was in the basement in a framed in area with a concrete floor and no sink, then I could have a duplex without GFI protection?

Based on the language in the code, I tend to agree with your scenario just as long as the room can be considered "finished", which would include wall surfaces (not open studs), insulation where necessary, systems where necessary, including wiring that complies with all pertainent areas of the code....:smile:

 

[Energize]

This is a duplex which means that 1/2 of the receptacle would be available for general purpose use. In an unfinished basement application, this would require GFCI protection....same with the other 1/2 of the sump receptacle....:smile:

Carefull here. I seem to remember a thread a while back that argued er, um, I mean "discussed" :grin: that you do not have to install a single receptacle. A duplex is acceptable. The violation only occurs when someone plugs something into the second receptacle of the duplex.

In other words, you can run the laundry circuit receptacles all over the house. The violation only occurs when someone uses it.:roll:

I have tried to keep a straight face when I run that by my inspector.....

edit: spelling

 

[celtic]

Are these the same threads from different POVs?

12-2 NM through a hole

 

[ceknight]

I did an inspection of a 1 family dwelling a while back and found these items.......... :smile:

Dude, that's Essex County. Just calling for an inspection is a step up for the locals. What's with all the nit-picking?

 

[lpelectric]

Carefull here. I seem to remember a thread a while back that argued er, um, I mean "discussed" :grin: that you do not have to install a single receptacle. A duplex is acceptable. The violation only occurs when someone plugs something into the second receptacle of the duplex.

In other words, you can run the laundry circuit receptacles all over the house. The violation only occurs when someone uses it.:roll:

I have tried to keep a straight face when I run that by my inspector.....

edit: spelling

My discussion is really centered on the intent of exception #1 to 210.8(A)(5) which would allow a duplex receptacle where it is positioned behind and below the level of the top of the washing machine and therefore not readily accessible. 1/2 of the receptacle would be utilized by the washer and the other 1/2 not used and not readily accessible, therefore the likelyhood of increased potential to shock hazard would be low.
Exception #2 is quite clear and helpful in understanding the overall intent of 210.8(A)(5), too. :smile:

 

[dlhoule]

Based on the language in the code, I tend to agree with your scenario just as long as the room can be considered "finished", which would include wall surfaces (not open studs), insulation where necessary, systems where necessary, including wiring that complies with all pertainent areas of the code....:smile:

lpelectric, If you worked in the great State of Michigan, where Licensing is required to do electrical work, you wouldn't get that kind of work to inspect.

Well, okay, maybe the occasional HO and the fly by nights who usually do not stay around.:grin:

 

[lpelectric]

Dude, that's Essex County. Just calling for an inspection is a step up for the locals. What's with all the nit-picking?

Which of the following is true:

• Our zip code is E-I-E-I-O
• We have kerosene-powered TV's
• It takes us an hour and a half to watch 60 Minutes
• The population never changes in Essex County. (everytime a young girl gets pregnant, a young fella leaves town)
• All of the above
• :grin:

 

[ceknight]

[*]It takes us an hour and a half to watch 60 Minutes