If You Where The Inspector

[sandsnow]

That aint your business, and inspectons that turn customer against contractor in that regard may very well relsult in a legal matter.

Bring it on. If someone is committing a crime, you can bet I would do something. Of course I would have to have evidence.

I can't believe you would let a fellow person get ripped off. What if it was your neighbor or your mother?

 

[ultramegabob]

Bring it on. If someone is committing a crime, you can bet I would do something. Of course I would have to have evidence.

I can't believe you would let a fellow person get ripped off. What if it was your neighbor or your mother?

I think that if you see a crime being commited you have an obligation to report it, but what I think people are talking about on here is inspectors asking questions about the business dealings such as what are you being charged for, what are you being credited for, etc..... thats not your job or any of your business....

 

[220/221]

I would point it out to the customer. Breakers are like 3 bucks a pole. If you are going thru the effort to upgrade it seems stupid to put in old breakers.

If you want to save them money, work faster.

 

[sandsnow]

I think that if you see a crime being commited you have an obligation to report it, but what I think people are talking about on here is inspectors asking questions about the business dealings such as what are you being charged for, what are you being credited for, etc..... thats not your job or any of your business....

Like I said, I agree up to a point.

 

[macmikeman]

Lets change this a little bit just for fun. What if this was a highrise with 50 units above it? Would it be ok to reuse old breakers, or would the inspector be infringing on the electricians right to turn a buck if he said hell no to the installation? Where is the dividing line? One dead family=ok, but not 50 dead familys? I don't like inspectors getting involved into financial portions of my jobs either, but this I believe is more of a reliability and quality of install issue than it is a mere imposition of mighty inspector power.

 

[quogueelectric]

70e says that some breakers are only rated for one trip now if those breakers are used how can you guarantee they havent been tripped? Edit to add nfpa70-e 225.3 /210.5 and ul489

 

[tryinghard]

contractor replaces main panel and puts the old breakers in to the new panel...and reusing the old breakers...what would you do

Recently I worked on an older home that had maybe 50+/- year old breakers. This home is full of hay wiring and I really want to change the panel and clean up the circuitry.

In my curiosity I overloaded a 20A breaker 125%, with some heaters, I left this resistive load on for 3 minutes and the breaker did not trip. I'm not sure how true it is but I have heard if a breaker has tripped 2 or 3 times it may not have correct OCP and should be changed.

I think it's easy to assume a breaker is good but it helps to keep in mind the breakers main function is overcurrent protection. You can test each breaker by overloading it (could ruin them) or simply replace them, residentially they're cheap.

Does anyone know of a breaker tester?

 

[e57]

How do you know new ones are operating properly?

Ditto (I need 10 characters...)

 

[macmikeman]

So were all ok then with reusing old stuff in highrises so long as it meets code as to type of equipment and all that? I'm not. I'm also not sure new breakers will work the way they are supposed to, but even in a single family dwelling, odds are better that new is going to work better than old, unless of course were talking about new combo afci's.(te he). What about commercial airliner parts? The FAA sure would not knowingly let an airline company replace a panel on a jet and not use new breakers in it. They have inspectors working there also. The FAA inspectors are supposed to not allow that sort of event, even if the customer (airline) wants to do the cheap route. If you boil this down, its the exact same thing. Safety first, money second.

 

[quogueelectric]

Gentleman please understand that OSHA requirements are NOT recomendations. The requirements set forth in the OSHA standards are LAW.

 

[macmikeman]

Gentleman please understand that OSHA requirements are NOT recomendations. The requirements set forth in the OSHA standards are LAW.

OSHA laws are applicable only to an employer-employee relationship. If none exists neither does the law. How did we highjack the hijack of FAA to OSHA anyway?

 

[quogueelectric]

OSHA laws are applicable only to an employer-employee relationship. If none exists neither does the law. How did we highjack the hijack of FAA to OSHA anyway?

You are way behind the curve.

 

[macmikeman]

I might be, wouldn't suprise me. I very often find myself way behind the curves. http://www.plantservices.com/articles/2004/405.html Here is an interesting link on the subject. What I keep seeing in the article is two important words. Employer and employee. Regardless of how many trips a breaker recomendation in an employer manual authored by a federal agency, what has that got to do with the original poster wanting to know if replacing breakers in a new panel with used ones?

 

[joe tedesco]

contractor replaces main panel and puts the old breakers in to the new panel . the inspector asks when checking the service are all the breakers new?
the electrical contractor states that he is trying to save the home owner as much as he can, so he reused the old explained it to the homeowner. the inspector raises the question, did he say he is making you a special price and reusing the old breakers which is a code violation. the home owner said he is an old friend and said in the beginning he would do his best pricing but did not reference the old breakers.
sounds simple just tell the electrical contractor to install only new material .
the home owner will just be hit with the bill, the contractor will say he tried to help but it did not work
and the homeowner with finance l issues gets hurt
what would you do

See the following information that may be of some use and give some suggestions.

http://www.squared.com/us/applicati...8625717100649C7C/$file/KnowTheFacts062106.pdf

 

[macmikeman]

Thanks Joe, that is good stuff. You must get up mighty early in the morning.:smile: That article is about substituting another brand. What this thread started out about is using the same brand (used) in a new panel that lists that model of breaker as ok.

 

[electricmanscott]

Thanks Joe, that is good stuff. You must get up mighty early in the morning.:smile: That article is about substituting another brand. What this thread started out about is using the same brand (used) in a new panel that lists that model of breaker as ok.

Joe is not one to let facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

First off, in our jurisdiction, it is not the inspectors job to discuss what the issues are between the customer and contractor. That is sort of being just plain nosey. Our title is Electrical inspector.
But...what I have marked in Blue...how does one know if the used breakers are operating properly?????

The same way one knows that a brand new breaker is operating properly - absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

 

[joe tedesco]

I Never Sleep

I Never Sleep

Joe is not one to let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Getting ready for the Marathon? Good Luck!

Easy to spot with that tattoo, eh! :wink:

I would like to see the panel label and instructions that include any information related to the products being described in the first post. My link was for information only, and if the circuit breakers were of the same manufacturer in the panel above then they may be of some use, but I want to see the equipment - something we must agree upon.

Facts are the labels that are in the cabinet.

Me I never sleep!

 

[electricmanscott]

Me I never sleep!

I should say not!

Damn you google!!! :grin:

 

[kkwong]

70e says that some breakers are only rated for one trip now if those breakers are used how can you guarantee they havent been tripped? Edit to add nfpa70-e 225.3 /210.5 and ul489

How do you know that when you send out a service tech and they reset the breaker and leave? I think the point is that no one knows for sure.

The EI's job is to ensure that the job is done to code. Now, if there is a local code that prohibits the reuse of breakers then I could see the problem; but to my knowledge no such codes exist.

The EC should discuss that issue with the customer and be up front and honest about it at the time of the estimate.