Panel in closet

[kwired]

There isn't any wall space to put a panel in that closet however, that was not Bob's point.

I did a walk in closet where every item had it's own cabinet with doors for clothes. So is the room a closet or are the cabinets the closet?

I actually got the architect to change the name of the room on the drawing to dressing room because he wanted a chandelier over a center island (table). The inspection department gave it their OKay....

And if you have a 30 x 36 open space you should have no problem placing a panel there either

Code definition of clothes closet uses the words room or space which does not give us a definite boundary.

240.24 (D) really needs something changed.

Why is clothes closet the only ignitable material that is even mentioned? I have seen panels located in areas that are more of a problem with ignitable material than what a clothes closet presents. What about installing an overcurrent device(s) accepable for class 2 or 3 hazardous locations in a clothes closet? The surface temperatures should never get hot enough to be a problem.

This is just not right as worded. It is a start for what is probably intended but not finished.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

Hmmmm , really not too sure what to call that room but have seen a few like it. Guess answer depends on what the print called it.

That is obsurd but you are right. In North Carolina the DOI has made rulings to that effect. Actual use was a dining room. Plans called it storage. No convenience outlets required.:roll:

 

[mcclary's electrical]

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That is obsurd but you are right. In North Carolina the DOI has made rulings to that effect. Actual use was a dining room. Plans called it storage. No convenience outlets required.:roll:

A residential storage room still needs to meet the 6x12 rule

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

A residential storage room still needs to meet the 6x12 rule

Where do you get that idea ? Its nothing more than another name for a closet

 

[hurk27]

And if you have a 30 x 36 open space you should have no problem placing a panel there either

Code definition of clothes closet uses the words room or space which does not give us a definite boundary.

240.24 (D) really needs something changed.

Why is clothes closet the only ignitable material that is even mentioned? I have seen panels located in areas that are more of a problem with ignitable material than what a clothes closet presents. What about installing an overcurrent device(s) accepable for class 2 or 3 hazardous locations in a clothes closet? The surface temperatures should never get hot enough to be a problem.

This is just not right as worded. It is a start for what is probably intended but not finished.

I agree with 240.24(D) needs rewording, simply because "in the vicinity" and "Easily Ignitable Material" are not defined in the NEC, if we look at Classified locations in section 500 we have definitions to support what is "Ignitable Material" but for this article we don't, and for the most part, most clothings and carpets and furniture have been required for years to be non combustible by the manufactures using a flame retardant in the fabrics, so this is also not been taken into account when this article was written. I just think 240.24(D) is not enforceable, but that is just my opinion. But I do understand the intent as I have seen the results when a main breaker melts down and its not pretty, and yes the unprotected service conductors can cause quite a large flash which can cause a fire if "Easily Ignitable Material" was "in the vicinity" such as paper products, cardboard boxes, Etc....
I have also seen the results when even a branch circuit breaker arcs out, again yes they could cause a fire, luckily in all but 3 cases there was nothing to ignite, but in the 3 cases it did, one the paneling caught fire, and the other 2 was paper products stored in the electric room caught fire. so there was just cause to put this in the code, it's just not worded correctly to be enforceable in my belief or IMHO.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Where do you get that idea ? Its nothing more than another name for a closet

You will NEVER convince me that you could write "storage room" on plans and actually use it as a dining room. No way anybody's falling for that

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

You will NEVER convince me that you could write "storage room" on plans and actually use it as a dining room. No way anybody's falling for that

I never said you could. I asked about this
"A residential storage room still needs to meet the 6x12 rule "
what code number ?

As far as getting away with this would be local issue and how the plans are stamped. I do not know why anyone would not want receptacles but storage areas do not require them

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I never said you could. I asked about this
"A residential storage room still needs to meet the 6x12 rule "
what code number ?

As far as getting away with this would be local issue and how the plans are stamped. I do not know why anyone would not want receptacles but storage areas do not require them

you're right, I was aiming my statement towards the post about a dining room being labeled storage.

If it's a room, inside of another room, I think you could call it storage.

If it's a room, all by itself, normal door from a normal hallway, like all other rooms in house, I think you would have to follow wall line layout for livable space.

 

[kwired]

If it's a room, all by itself, normal door from a normal hallway, like all other rooms in house, I think you would have to follow wall line layout for livable space.

I have seen many rooms like this that are less than 10 square feet. Most people call them a closet.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I have seen many rooms like this that are less than 10 square feet. Most people call them a closet.

That's true, that does fit the same definition, but I was speaking of a normal size room, as compared to all the others.(that's what I meant by "like all the other rooms in house" ,,,IMO Simply renaming it won't get you out of putting receptacles there.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I have wired some huge rooms that where down right huge but called closet or storage.
Had one that was about 15 feet by 30 and it had 2 solid rows of floresant 2 lamp fixtures. Called it storage. Nice name for plant growing room.
Very hard for an inspector to fight you on receptacles in a room approved by plan review that says storage. We see many that call a room a garage and we know full well it is an apartment. Prints are the key issue here.