Grounding to the Waterpipe

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rwreuter

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if you like you can attach it to the house.

actually i am not sure of the depth, i know it is not 24" or 18" for that matter. that is why it has to be sized as a #4 because it can withstand physical damage.

if someone knows can they post it or give a code referrance.
 
George Stolz

George Stolz

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e57 said:
IMO if you look at the water meter out at the street and the pipe inside - and both are copper - and it's an older install - one could assume it's copper. And need to be treated as an electrode. Leaving you to take it through, over, under or around the house...
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Uh, the whole reason for the supplementary electrode is that the NEC assumes that we can't look at one end and the other and assume it's an electrode. It could have a plastic repair beside the house.

I'd say that the OP tell the HO that the EI approved the installation as it sits for good reason, there is little benefit to going to extremes to get within 5' in these circumstances. The two ground rods are good enough.
 
George Stolz

George Stolz

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rwreuter said:
if you like you can attach it to the house.

actually i am not sure of the depth, i know it is not 24" or 18" for that matter. that is why it has to be sized as a #4 because it can withstand physical damage.

if someone knows can they post it or give a code referrance.
Click to expand...
There is no depth requirement for a GEC. You can install it at 2" if you like, if it's deemed to be not exposed to physical damage.
 
Energy-Miser

Energy-Miser

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Location
Maryland
rwreuter said:
if you like you can attach it to the house.

actually i am not sure of the depth, i know it is not 24" or 18" for that matter. that is why it has to be sized as a #4 because it can withstand physical damage.

if someone knows can they post it or give a code referrance.
Click to expand...

Well true that. We barely burry them between ground rods.
 
iwire

iwire

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e57 said:
IMO if you look at the water meter out at the street and the pipe inside - and both are copper - and it's an older install - one could assume it's copper. And need to be treated as an electrode. Leaving you to take it through, over, under or around the house...
Click to expand...

Agreed .............. but we don't have that option here.

Here water meters are where they belong ....... inside the basement.:grin:
 
Energy-Miser

Energy-Miser

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George Stolz said:
Uh, the whole reason for the supplementary electrode is that the NEC assumes that we can't look at one end and the other and assume it's an electrode. It could have a plastic repair beside the house.

I'd say that the OP tell the HO that the EI approved the installation as it sits for good reason, there is little benefit to going to extremes to get within 5' in these circumstances. The two ground rods are good enough.
Click to expand...

Yes, I intend to do that, once I have talked to the inspector, and confirmed that he has no objections. Perhaps he can re-assure them as a dis-interested party.
 
R

rwreuter

Senior Member
George Stolz said:
There is no depth requirement for a GEC. You can install it at 2" if you like, if it's deemed to be not exposed to physical damage.
Click to expand...

i was thinking something along those lines but i couldn't remember and didn't want to sound off the wall without a ref.

also, on a tangent related to that wire. i ALWAYS recommend solid #6 for the ground rods. the stranded #6 and the dirt it sits in causes the wire to break down. i have witnessed on many occasions stranded ground rod wire broke because it deteriorated so much that only one strand was holding it together.

in fact i would go as far to say that i think the code should be admended to say that if you are going to bury any non insulated wire it has to be at least a #6 and solid. too many problems with stranded conductors and the earth.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
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e57 said:
IMO if you look at the water meter out at the street and the pipe inside - and both are copper - and it's an older install - one could assume it's copper. And need to be treated as an electrode.
Click to expand...
However, if that assumption is a false one, depending on an electrode that isn't one could be an issue, too.

If an inspector can say "Unless you expose 10' of pipe for me to see, we can't assume it's an electrode," so can we.

I believe it's less hazardous to be wrong treating it like it's not an electrode than being wrong treating it as one.

The shortest pathway between the electrical system bonding point and the metallic water system is the best pathway.
 
iwire

iwire

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Massachusetts
LarryFine said:
However, if that assumption is a false one, depending on an electrode that isn't one could be an issue, too.

If an inspector can say "Unless you expose 10' of pipe for me to see, we can't assume it's an electrode," so can we.

I believe it's less hazardous to be wrong treating it like it's not an electrode than being wrong treating it as one.

The shortest pathway between the electrical system bonding point and the metallic water system is the best pathway.
Click to expand...

I agree with Larry's thoughts here particularly this one.


If an inspector can say "Unless you expose 10' of pipe for me to see, we can't assume it's an electrode," so can we.
Click to expand...

I had been trying to find a way to word that very thought. :)
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
George Stolz said:
I'd say that the OP tell the HO that the EI approved the installation as it sits for good reason, there is little benefit to going to extremes to get within 5' in these circumstances. The two ground rods are good enough.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and as RW said in post 16, you'll be happy to install anything beyond NEC requirements he wants to pay extra for.

He should have brought it up at contract-signing time if it was that important to him. Tell him we said so. ;)
 
Energy-Miser

Energy-Miser

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Ok guys, show a little restraint the OP is back! Just kidding. Anyway, thanks for the support for a fellow contractor, in the face of the evil home owner. These guys bought the house from somone else, went 50-50 for cost of the heavy up. Some details of their transion went a little south, and the new owner is venting at my expense, or at least that's my impression of it.
 
R

rwreuter

Senior Member
Energy-Miser said:
Ok guys, show a little restraint the OP is back! Just kidding. Anyway, thanks for the support for a fellow contractor, in the face of the evil home owner. These guys bought the house from somone else, went 50-50 for cost of the heavy up. Some details of their transion went a little south, and the new owner is venting at my expense, or at least that's my impression of it.
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sorry to hear that, hopefully you got a deposit or some money upfront.
 
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