ground wire clockwise around ground screws

[jxofaltrds]

OK, lets get back to you telling us how unworkmanlike our work is. :lol:

Love you too Bob! Hope everyone that is not servring our country remembers that we can talk our "****" because others have given us the privilege to do so!

PS some that are new do not understand that at the end of the day we only care about one thing. Public safety!

 

[chemicalx]

A Picture is worth a thousand inspections

A Picture is worth a thousand inspections

The inspector may be thinking about the picture in the nec article regarding receptacle connections (sorry I don't have my NEC handy or I would site the article) where there is a picture of proper and improper connections to a screw with a terminal loop. In each picture the loop is attatched clocwise. Don't know if this helps at all but just some food for thought.

 

[kwired]

The inspector may be thinking about the picture in the nec article regarding receptacle connections (sorry I don't have my NEC handy or I would site the article) where there is a picture of proper and improper connections to a screw with a terminal loop. In each picture the loop is attatched clocwise. Don't know if this helps at all but just some food for thought.

Are you talking a picture in the NEC handbook? Commentary in the handbook is nothing more than the author's opinion and not part of the NEC or even an NFPA opinion or interpretation.

 

[drewsserviceco]

I'm not left-handed so I don't know for sure, but I would not see how that would make much difference. A repetitive skill is a repetitive skill, right? I find it hard to believe but are lefties really disadvantaged by the thread directions?

besides making a dig at all the lefties out there, there are some disadvantages. easy enough to overcome, sure. fun to watch the greenhorn leftie though.

had one :dunce:journeyman lefty, making up 24X24 J Boxes over some panels.......not the best example of a journeyman......made me hate all lefties for a while. had to go back into the boxes after they were energized and seemed like every other wirenut would fall off. question him on it...."what, i tightened them all up".....sure did, the wrong direction.

 

[jxofaltrds]

besides making a dig at all the lefties out there, there are some disadvantages. easy enough to overcome, sure. fun to watch the greenhorn leftie though.

had one :dunce:journeyman lefty, making up 24X24 J Boxes over some panels.......not the best example of a journeyman......made me hate all lefties for a while. had to go back into the boxes after they were energized and seemed like every other wirenut would fall off. question him on it...."what, i tightened them all up".....sure did, the wrong direction.

Like this?

 

[kwired]

There are occasional tasks that are easier to do if you are left handed - then the lefties make the righties look bad.


Most left handed people I know are quite good at doing right handed things - as since we live in a right handed world they have to still use things designed for right handed people and they get used to it.

Think what would happen if you are right handed and you lost your right hand. You would have to do everything left handed, the more you do it the better you will get at it.

 

[jumper]

Think what would happen if you are right handed and you lost your right hand. You would have to do everything left handed, the more you do it the better you will get at it.

As I am a klutz and end up in a cast at least every 2 years, I can agree with this.

Just broke two fingers last month.

 

[iwire]

As I am a klutz and end up in a cast at least every 2 years, I can agree with this.

Just broke two fingers last month.

Note to self: Never work near jumper

 

[jxofaltrds]

As I am a klutz and end up in a cast at least every 2 years, I can agree with this.

Just broke two fingers last month.

 

[kwired]

Note to self: Never work near jumper

Maybe he is a bad luck magnet and will draw all of it away from you

 

[Stevareno]

... any connection that starts to undo itself while it's being tightned is worthless. like wrapping stranded wire around a ground screw. big nono. crimps( forks or rounds are needed here.)

Hint: If you twist the stranded wire CCW before terminating under a screw, the strands tend to tighten as you terminate instead of splaying out from under the screw.

Now I suppose you're going to come back with something that says twisting the wire CCW is altering the manufactures design and should be a code violation??

If you terminate the egc on a screw typically it will not move. If you 'tail' off of it the egc will move when you install or remove the device. I doubt if movement of the conductor on a "terminal" was concidered in its testing or design.

I am sure that you care about your work. I just believe that my way is better.

I hope you don't fail inspections because of your opinion. Just because something is done in a manner you don't like, doesn't necessarily mean it's a code violation.

As to the bolded part of your quote, I say "not necessarily". If you leave the wire long enough, you can fold it into the box in such a way that will prevent movement from affecting the ground screw termination when you install or remove the device.
And in the case where you have multiple cables entering the box (requiring pigtails), wrapping one of the grounds around the ground screw and then taking it to the connection point results in having one less wire under the wirenut. That could be the difference between having to use a red wire nut or a blue wire nut. I don't like having to use a blue wire nut in an outlet box. :happysad:

 

[jxofaltrds]

Hint: If you twist the stranded wire CCW before terminating under a screw, the strands tend to tighten as you terminate instead of splaying out from under the screw.

Now I suppose you're going to come back with something that says twisting the wire CCW is altering the manufactures design and should be a code violation??



I hope you don't fail inspections because of your opinion. Just because something is done in a manner you don't like, doesn't necessarily mean it's a code violation.

I don't like having to use a blue wire nut in an outlet box. :happysad:

It is not my opinion. Everyone knowns the correct direction under a screw.

Which way do you put a stranded wire under a screw?

So it is OK because you do not like blue wirenuts? LOL. hmy:

 

[iwire]

It is not my opinion. Everyone knowns the correct direction under a screw.

There is no NEC section to back that up but 110.3(B) and any of those instructions are device specific, you can't show a levitton instruction and apply that to hubbell or P&S.

 

[jxofaltrds]

There is no NEC section to back that up but 110.3(B) and any of those instructions are device specific, you can't show a levitton instruction and apply that to hubbell or P&S.

P&S



Try 2/3 when 'looping'! :slaphead:

AND more important how do you comply with the 1" in the example?

Sorry it just is not allowed.

 

[janagyjr]

Wire Direction

Wire Direction

There are occasional tasks that are easier to do if you are left handed - then the lefties make the righties look bad.


Most left handed people I know are quite good at doing right handed things - as since we live in a right handed world they have to still use things designed for right handed people and they get used to it.

Think what would happen if you are right handed and you lost your right hand. You would have to do everything left handed, the more you do it the better you will get at it.

As I am a klutz and end up in a cast at least every 2 years, I can agree with this.

Just broke two fingers last month.

Doing some things in the trade rightie is not that difficult. I'm just finishing up chemo from my second time dealing with cancer (left arm, again; I'm left-hand dominant) and this time around its more of an adjustment (more was done to my arm than last time) but it is still rather easy because of all the rightie-specific stuff out there.

Hint: If you twist the stranded wire CCW before terminating under a screw, the strands tend to tighten as you terminate instead of splaying out from under the screw.

Now I suppose you're going to come back with something that says twisting the wire CCW is altering the manufactures design and should be a code violation??



I hope you don't fail inspections because of your opinion. Just because something is done in a manner you don't like, doesn't necessarily mean it's a code violation.

As to the bolded part of your quote, I say "not necessarily". If you leave the wire long enough, you can fold it into the box in such a way that will prevent movement from affecting the ground screw termination when you install or remove the device.
And in the case where you have multiple cables entering the box (requiring pigtails), wrapping one of the grounds around the ground screw and then taking it to the connection point results in having one less wire under the wirenut. That could be the difference between having to use a red wire nut or a blue wire nut. I don't like having to use a blue wire nut in an outlet box. :happysad:

I was taught by an electrician with 46 years experience and he says whether its tightening under the screw, twisting strands together, or twisting wires together for a splice, always go clockwise. Why? Because you tighten up the wire-nut clockwise and you tighten the screw clockwise. As quiet as I stay here (mostly because I'm not as active here as elsewhere but also because here I find little room for my limited experience to speak up), it seems silly to even consider any other direction to loop it (first termination I tried doing a CCW loop, it was solid #14 and just would not stay in place until I was done tightening the screw, swapped loop direction and it was easy to finish the termination). It seems to me that the consensus from manufacturers, the NEC (even if its not explicitly Code), and most other electricians of various experience says doing otherwise is silly (making things harder then it has to be), poor workmanship (doesn't produce a good enough connection), and just plain wrong. That statement is, of course, opinion (which are loke noses; everyone has one and they all smell).

P&S

View attachment 7176

Try 2/3 when 'looping'! :slaphead:

AND more important how do you comply with the 1" in the example?

Sorry it just is not allowed.

I have trouble keeping it to just 2/3 around the post. I often get 3/4 or more. For this, I accept tips on best practices to help me improve.

I was told to strip 1" as well, when properly looped and terminated under the screw none sticks past the device to cause a short while ensuring no insulation gets under the screw (ensuring a poor connection). Of course, eyeballing measurements is extremely difficult for me.

Any comments on the cancer or chemo, please direct personally to my forum inbox or email me (if my email is visible, which it should be). I do not want to get off-topic. Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[iwire]

P&S

View attachment 7176

Try 2/3 when 'looping'! :slaphead:

AND more important how do you comply with the 1" in the example?

Sorry it just is not allowed.

You missed the point, the point but that's fine.

 

[jxofaltrds]

You missed the point, the point but that's fine.

Probably. Would not be the first time nor the last. However at the end of the day I believe we could have a meeting of the minds!

Thank God my verbal skills make up for the lack of my written ones.

 

[Stevareno]

It is not my opinion. Everyone knowns the correct direction under a screw.

Which way do you put a stranded wire under a screw?

So it is OK because you do not like blue wirenuts? LOL. hmy:

I'm not disputing which direction you wrap a wire around a screw, that's common sense. CW for standard thread screws (and CCW for reverse thread screws ).

I was disputing your assertion (bolded by me)

If you terminate the egc on a screw typically it will not move. If you 'tail' off of it the egc will move when you install or remove the device.

I guess it's a matter of quality work vs. hack job. I learned long ago to do things in such a way that I never have to go back to fix something.
And I have nothing against using blue wirenuts, but if I can make it so I don't have to, all the better.

 

[PetrosA]

In a lot of ways this discussion about which way to wrap a wire around a screw is like talking about why not to put your shoes on backwards It's such a simple truth that you don't think about it and there's nothing really to discuss. Unscrewing a properly torqued screw by moving the wire is a new one for me - I'll have to see if it's possible.

Looping on the other hand, is completely up for discussion. It doesn't violate any restriction of multiple conductors, because you only have a single conductor under the screw. You can certainly wrap 2/3 of the way around the screw and unless the screw is really, really huge, you'd never need 1" of bare copper to achieve that. Properly torqued, it shouldn't push out any more than a hooked wire end would. Given a choice of what looks more professional, four switches ganged together with loops versus each one wire nutted to a hot (like you have to do with some Lutron dimmers), I'll go with looped any day. It makes changing out a switch much easier later, too, since you don't have to take out all the switches in front of the wirenut holding the hots together.

Granted, maybe my loops look different than some others - I leave at least 6" from the front of the box to the first loop and at least 6"-7" in between loops so that any switch has enough wire to remove it without removing the others.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Hmm. I did not know that terminals were approved for looping?

250.120 Equipment Grounding Conductor Installation.

(A) Raceway, Cable Trays, Cable Armor, Cablebus, or
Cable Sheaths. Where it consists of a raceway, cable tray,
cable armor, cablebus framework, or cable sheath or where
it is a wire within a raceway or cable, it shall be installed in
accordance with the applicable provisions in this Code using
fittings for joints and terminations approved for use
with the type raceway or cable used. All connections,
joints, and fittings shall be made tight using suitable tools.

I'm still trying to understand why it is called a terminal if a wire is not terminating there?