ground wire clockwise around ground screws

[kwired]

110.3(B) and I just posted Leviton's picture of how you are to attach a wire to the device. How is this different than stripping the correct length of wire if you are back stabbing the device?

If the conductor is continuous there is no end to have on the wrong side of the screw. The reason to wrap it clockwise is so if the end binds when turning the screw it has a tendency to pull into the screw. If it is wrapped counterclockwise and the end binds it will tend to be pushed out from under the screw.

If you are back stabbing the device there is no wrapping around the screw - what was the point of even mentioning backstabbing?

grounding screw that shall be used for
no other purpose

The grounding screw in the photo is not used for any other purpose but grounding. Where people most often violate this is when they put a grounding conductor under a screw that is also used for mounting the box or securing a device or cover.

If you have multiple conductors under the screw I may question if that is allowed but would not call it being used for more than just grounding, and that is another topic.

 

[jxofaltrds]

If Ideal says this screw is for terminating a wire, what reason do you have for using it as a 'feed' through conductor?



I do not see a problem with what you want to do, just do not think that it is allowed.

They make products for doing what you want.

 

[PEDRO ESCOVILLA]

an electrician that wraps counter clockwise isn't paying attention. no, it's not compliant, 110.14 (A) ..". shall ensure a thoroughly good connection..".. any connection that starts to undo itself while it's being tightned is worthless. like wrapping stranded wire around a ground screw. big nono. crimps( forks or rounds are needed here.) do they all have torqueing screwdrivers. yowza watch 'em come unglued when ya pop that on 'em. it is in the code right sparkies!

 

[iwire]

From Leviton

View attachment 7091

That is great, but only applies to the specific product that it ships with.

 

[iwire]

If Ideal says this screw is for terminating a wire, what reason do you have for using it as a 'feed' through conductor?

View attachment 7098

I do not see a problem with what you want to do, just do not think that it is allowed.

They make products for doing what you want.

View attachment 7099

There is no listing for grounding screws, they are not listed products and we can use them how we want.

 

[charlie b]

Help me prove it is a code violation to wrap the wire counter-clockwise. I'm counting on your help and support. . . .

Sorry, but I can?t support you on this one. I do not see any code section being violated by this installation. There is a big difference between ?poor practice? and ?illegal.? This fits into the former category, not the later.

 

[Strathead]

:lol:

Yes, this is a real question! We recently failed an inspection for having the solid #12 ground wire of a MC wrapped counter-clockwise around the 10-32 ground screw to a metal 4"sq box.

I personally agree with the inspector. The problem is I can't find anything to back it up. I've looked in UL, manufacturer intructions, and NEC of course. I was able to find some manufacturer instructions for devices mentioning wrapping the wire clockwise around the terminal screws. Nothing specific to ground screws.

Some may ask, who gives a damn? But common kmowledge tells us when tightening the ground screw, the wire will tend to be pushed out when going the opposing direction. Therefore, by wrapping the wire clockwise you are getting a better more reliable connection.

So, to get to the point. Help me prove it is a code violation to wrap the wire counter-clockwise.

I'm counting on your help and support in this highly important subject.

While I agree with you in principal, how about this common scenario. Strip the insulation 10" back and wrap the wire 270 degrees, crimp with needle nose, and use the 10" wire as the pig? Now it is technically wound both ways depending on the end of the wire you are looking from.:lol:

 

[jxofaltrds]

That is great, but only applies to the specific product that it ships with.

Correct. Leviton.

 

[jxofaltrds]

:lol:

While I agree with you in principal, how about this common scenario. Strip the insulation 10" back and wrap the wire 270 degrees, crimp with needle nose, and use the 10" wire as the pig? Now it is technically wound both ways depending on the end of the wire you are looking from.:lol:

Wrong, lazy and stupid to do.

Please tell me how this is concidered a workmanlike installation? Not talking about a code violation for workmanship I'm talking about explain to me how this short cut is workmanlike!

Just shows the difference between a craftsman and a hack.

 

[Jacob S]

Wrong, lazy and stupid to do.

Please tell me how this is concidered a workmanlike installation? Not talking about a code violation for workmanship I'm talking about explain to me how this short cut is workmanlike!

Just shows the difference between a craftsman and a hack.

Just tell me how this is hack? I am all about workmanship, but i completely disagree with you. If anything, it removes an additional connection.
How is a romex coming into a metal box, with the ground wire hitting and coming off the ground screw in the back hack?

 

[jxofaltrds]

Just tell me how this is hack? I am all about workmanship, but i completely disagree with you. If anything, it removes an additional connection.
How is a romex coming into a metal box, with the ground wire hitting and coming off the ground screw in the back hack?

If you terminate the egc on a screw typically it will not move. If you 'tail' off of it the egc will move when you install or remove the device. I doubt if movement of the conductor on a "terminal" was concidered in its testing or design.

I am sure that you care about your work. I just believe that my way is better.

 

[kwired]

There is no listing for grounding screws, they are not listed products and we can use them how we want.

There is not even a requirement to use "ground screws" and they don't have to be green either like some think they must, they are just convenient for the purpose, and the typical "ground screw" has a washer type head that seems to work better for terminating conductors.

Wrong, lazy and stupid to do.

Please tell me how this is concidered a workmanlike installation? Not talking about a code violation for workmanship I'm talking about explain to me how this short cut is workmanlike!

Just shows the difference between a craftsman and a hack.

Please tell us why it is not workmanlike other than that you don't like it. Number one problem with judging workmanlike is it is about 99% opinion most of the time.

If you terminate the egc on a screw typically it will not move. If you 'tail' off of it the egc will move when you install or remove the device. I doubt if movement of the conductor on a "terminal" was concidered in its testing or design.

I am sure that you care about your work. I just believe that my way is better.

Same can be said for the terminal screws on the device itself.

 

[kwired]

like wrapping stranded wire around a ground screw. big nono. crimps( forks or rounds are needed here.)

Please cite a code section that is violated by doing this. Do not use 110.12, or any other sections that may allow for AHJ's opinion to come into play.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If you terminate the egc on a screw typically it will not move. If you 'tail' off of it the egc will move when you install or remove the device. I doubt if movement of the conductor on a "terminal" was concidered in its testing or design.

...

If it wasn't it should have been. With the use of solid wire, there is pressure to rotate the termination screws any time you tuck or remove a device where the wires were terminated by wrapping them around the termination screw. In past years, electricians were taught to bend the wires in a manner that would tend to tighten the screw as the device is tucked into the box. Wrapping the wire around and bringing the tail out could increase or decrease the rotational forces on the screw depending on how the wires are tucked.

That being said, wrapping the wires around the device and extending them to another device in another box was in the specs for two different commercial projects that I worked on. This method of installation was required for the ungrounded conductor, the grounded conductor and the EGC.

 

[drewsserviceco]

one less point for failure

one less point for failure

i am in favor of leaving the ground wire long and wrapping the grounding/bonding wire around a ground screw and then taking it to the device.

it is one less point for failure, a more direct path to the panel and if you give it a little pinch with your strippers or needle-nose pliers before torque it home, that wire will not be going anywhere.


I am a fanatic when it comes to terminations and connections. one of the biggest pains in the *** is having to come back behind myself and take something apart, takes forever and not easily done.

p.s. i throw the word hack around pretty casually. however, a hack wouldn't bother to ground the box and would probably twist all the ground together and leave one long to go to the device, no wirenut. woouldn't believe how often i uncover that setup in existing installations.

 

[iwire]

Wrong, lazy and stupid to do.

Please tell me how this is concidered a workmanlike installation? Not talking about a code violation for workmanship I'm talking about explain to me how this short cut is workmanlike!

Just shows the difference between a craftsman and a hack.

Wow mike, you just called about every professional electrian I know including myself a 'hack'. I sure hope you can seperate your personal feelings from code issues and inspections.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Wow mike, you just called about every professional electrian I know including myself a 'hack'. I sure hope you can seperate your personal feelings from code issues and inspections.

First I may not have been clear. Imagine that!:slaphead: Hack work is wrapping around the switch or receptacle. Did not mean in the box. I don't do that but have no problem with that.

Yes I can seperate. Remember when i posted that I approved an existing service with schedule 40 'white' pvc? I use a very liberal interpretation.

I am here to gather a concenus.

 

[mivey]

First I may not have been clear. Imagine that!:slaphead: Hack work is wrapping around the switch or receptacle. Did not mean in the box. I don't do that but have no problem with that.

Yes I can seperate. Remember when i posted that I approved an existing service with schedule 40 'white' pvc? I use a very liberal interpretation.

I am here to gather a concenus.

I have "daisy-chained" thousands of switches and am far from being a hack. Done correctly, it is workmanlike. Done like a hack, it is hack and will not be secure. That is the difference between a craftsman and a hack. Sounds like you have only seen it done using the hack method.

 

[Strathead]

First I may not have been clear. Imagine that!:slaphead: Hack work is wrapping around the switch or receptacle. Did not mean in the box. I don't do that but have no problem with that.

Yes I can seperate. Remember when i posted that I approved an existing service with schedule 40 'white' pvc? I use a very liberal interpretation.

I am here to gather a concenus.

I seems to me that you did mean it. Whereas, I personnally think it is a better less hack installation. I have suffered from youre disease in the past, buttry to get past it. I remember a training program I had the defined Quality as "conformance to requirements". If someone requests a Pinto and you provide a Cadillac, that is providing poor quality. Try filtering your disdain for "hack" work through that filter. Being a Commercial Electrician, Romex is substandard to me, but if someone was building a Commercial structure where it is compliant, it is not my money to spend, so not my decision to make, unless I want to give him something for nothing.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I have "daisy-chained" thousands of switches and am far from being a hack. Done correctly, it is workmanlike. Done like a hack, it is hack and will not be secure. That is the difference between a craftsman and a hack. Sounds like you have only seen it done using the hack method.

I seems to me that you did mean it. Whereas, I personnally think it is a better less hack installation. I have suffered from youre disease in the past, buttry to get past it. I remember a training program I had the defined Quality as "conformance to requirements". If someone requests a Pinto and you provide a Cadillac, that is providing poor quality. Try filtering your disdain for "hack" work through that filter. Being a Commercial Electrician, Romex is substandard to me, but if someone was building a Commercial structure where it is compliant, it is not my money to spend, so not my decision to make, unless I want to give him something for nothing.

Did it once as a helper. Thought it was crap work then and still do to this day. I have never seeing this shown as an exceptable method anywhere. Just because you do it and are good at it does not make it craftsmanlike.

i do not believe that it is a good mechanical connection. They call them terminals for a reason.