ground wire clockwise around ground screws

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kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
jxofaltrds said:
Did it once as a helper. Thought it was crap work then and still do to this day. I have never seeing this shown as an exceptable method anywhere. Just because you do it and are good at it does not make it craftsmanlike.

i do not believe that it is a good mechanical connection. They call them terminals for a reason.
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Do you reject this practice as an inspector and if so what is your basis for rejection (code section)?

I have done things that an inspector has said he didn't like before but yet had him say "I don't see why you can't do it either". Inspector is supposed to inspect to codes or official amendments to the codes, not to his opinion. There are rare cases where it comes to opinion but if they make a quick decision it is likley because similar thing has been done before and they are being consistant with that situation, otherwise they often make no immediate decision and maybe even discuss the situation with their supervisor or other colleagues.
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
jxofaltrds said:
Did it once as a helper. Thought it was crap work then and still do to this day.
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To each his own.

jxofaltrds said:
I have never seeing this shown as an exceptable method anywhere. Just because you do it and are good at it does not make it craftsmanlike.
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I'm a high-quality, skilled craftsman and use this method. I was taught by craftsman in the industry who were of the highest skill and quality and they also used this method. An accepted method used by quality, skilled craftsmen would seem to me to be the very definition of craftsmanlike.

jxofaltrds said:
i do not believe that it is a good mechanical connection.
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Just your opinion. I have seen many other type connections that were not good connections either but that was a result of the work quality. Quality work will produce a quality result. Not all of us have to try to "idiot-proof" our work.

jxofaltrds said:
They call them terminals for a reason.
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I'm sure they do.
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
kwired said:
Do you reject this practice as an inspector and if so what is your basis for rejection (code section)?

I have done things that an inspector has said he didn't like before but yet had him say "I don't see why you can't do it either". Inspector is supposed to inspect to codes or official amendments to the codes, not to his opinion. There are rare cases where it comes to opinion but if they make a quick decision it is likley because similar thing has been done before and they are being consistant with that situation, otherwise they often make no immediate decision and maybe even discuss the situation with their supervisor or other colleagues.
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Would I reject it? No.

I believe that this is self-policing:

110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work. Electrical equipment
shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
jxofaltrds said:
Would I reject it? No.

I believe that this is self-policing:

110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work. Electrical equipment
shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.
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I hope you have never used 110.12 as basis for failing an inspection.

What is the standard for neat and workmanlike? Sounds like something very opinionated and no definite standards exist. Most of the time if you feel something is not neat and workmanlike you can find something to cite other than "I don't like it".
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
binney said:
Yes, this is a real question! We recently failed an inspection for having the solid #12 ground wire of a MC wrapped counter-clockwise around the 10-32 ground screw to a metal 4"sq box.

I personally agree with the inspector. The problem is I can't find anything to back it up. I've looked in UL, manufacturer intructions, and NEC of course. I was able to find some manufacturer instructions for devices mentioning wrapping the wire clockwise around the terminal screws. Nothing specific to ground screws.

Some may ask, who gives a damn? But common kmowledge tells us when tightening the ground screw, the wire will tend to be pushed out when going the opposing direction. Therefore, by wrapping the wire clockwise you are getting a better more reliable connection.

So, to get to the point. Help me prove it is a code violation to wrap the wire counter-clockwise.

I'm counting on your help and support in this highly important subject.
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Watch the video on this page!

PS See any code violations?

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=T5320&section=42524&minisite=10251
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
kwired said:
I hope you have never used 110.12 as basis for failing an inspection.

What is the standard for neat and workmanlike? Sounds like something very opinionated and no definite standards exist. Most of the time if you feel something is not neat and workmanlike you can find something to cite other than "I don't like it".
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What part of self-policing did you not understand?
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
jxofaltrds said:
Watch the video on this page!

PS See any code violations?
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Yeah. As well as someone who needs some more lessons on how to install a receptacle. IMO, it looks like he has been doing this type work for less than a day with sub-standard training.
 
Little Bill

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
mivey said:
Yeah. As well as someone who needs some more lessons on how to install a receptacle. IMO, it looks like he has been doing this type work for less than a day with sub-standard training.
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Sounds like his training was good. He had the ground down!:lol:
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
kwired said:
Well apparently it does not work - we have all these conductors out there looped around device terminals and we shouldn't have that:p
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mivey said:
Yeah. As well as someone who needs some more lessons on how to install a receptacle. IMO, it looks like he has been doing this type work for less than a day with sub-standard training.
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Little Bill said:
Sounds like his training was good. He had the ground down!:lol:
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At least we have fun at the end of the day!
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
K8MHZ said:
The best part is now I know the reason for the practice of keeping the cover plate screw slots vertical!
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Yeah, that was a bunch of hooey!:)

His talk of how he likes to do this & that and yet he can barely get a wire around the terminal, can't keep it under the screw, and does not know how to use his strippers. Not a glowing resume as far as I'm concerned.
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
mivey said:
Yeah, that was a bunch of hooey!:)

His talk of how he likes to do this & that and yet he can barely get a wire around the terminal, can't keep it under the screw, and does not know how to use his strippers. Not a glowing resume as far as I'm concerned.
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And I was going to use this to help explain 110.3(B)!:weeping:
 
D

drewsserviceco

Member
mastery of mechanical ability

mastery of mechanical ability

RE: Leviton guy

it's not so much his apparent lack of mechanical skills, but rather he is just left-handed.
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
drewsserviceco said:
RE: Leviton guy

it's not so much his apparent lack of mechanical skills, but rather he is just left-handed.
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I'm not left-handed so I don't know for sure, but I would not see how that would make much difference. A repetitive skill is a repetitive skill, right? I find it hard to believe but are lefties really disadvantaged by the thread directions?
 
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