PPE for Residential and light commercial HVACR work

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David Goodman

Senior Member
Location
Pahrump, NV, USA
Very few people that I see working in the residential and light commercial HVACR field wear PPE. However, they routinely take voltage and amperage readings on live 240V and 480V systems.

If I follow this example in my work, it would seem that I would be exposing myself to some serious hazards. Would you agree?
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
My personal opinion is that for the most part the arc flash risk in residential work is fairly Limited. There are some exceptions obviously for large residential complexes but for most residential work the arc flash risk is fairly low. However there is still a risk of electrocution. You can die from 120 volts just as easily as you can die from 480 volts.

I think for Light commercial you're in roughly the same boat, with limited arc flash risk but substantial risk for electrocution.

However just because most of the time the risk is relatively low, does not mean you should not protect yourself and your employees from that risk.
 
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David Goodman

Senior Member
Location
Pahrump, NV, USA
petersonra said:
My personal opinion is that for the most part the arc flash risk in residential work is fairly Limited. There are some exceptions obviously for large residential complexes but for most residential work the arc flash risk is fairly low. However there is still a risk of electrocution. You can die from 120 volts just as easily as you can die from 480 volts.

I think for Light commercial you're in roughly the same boat, with limited arc flash risk but substantial risk for electrocution.

However just because most of the time the risk is relatively low, does not mean you should not protect yourself and your employees from that risk.
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Thank you for your response.

So, insulated tools and gloves might be advisable, but arc flash coveralls and face shield might be overboard?

Your last sentence would indicate that PPE appropriate for the voltage should be worn even though the risk is low. I can accept that if it is the way to go. Even though HVAC contractors in Nevada are authorized to work on electrical supply all the way back to the power supply, I won't work inside the main breaker panel. I leave that for the electricians.
 
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iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
David Goodman said:
Thank you for your response.

So, insulated tools and gloves might be advisable, but arc flash coveralls and face shield might be overboard?

Your last sentence would indicate that PPE appropriate for the voltage should be worn even though the risk is low. I can accept that if it is the way to go. Even though HVAC contractors in Nevada are authorized to work on electrical supply all the way back to the power supply, I won't work inside the main breaker panel. I leave that for the electricians.
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If we were to follow the rules to the letter:

  • You must never be expossed to live parts, you either have to kill the power or wear PPE.
  • If you decide to kill the power you are required to put on PPE to test that the power is off.
  • If you decide to work things hot you may only do so specifically for trouble shooting or when there is more danger in shutting down than not.
  • How much and what kind of PPE needed is based on the available fault current, at a dwelling unit that PPE might only need to be safety glasses, gloves and Cotten clothing. In another case the fault current might be so high that the PPE looks like a bomb suit.


The fact is Federal laws require your company to be teaching you these rules and enforcing policies that require you to follow those rules.

The reality is most of this gets ignored and it's a free for all.
 
Sahib

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
An arc flash accident is a very rare event, even if any such has actually happened in a residence, even though 240V is frequently used in the residence. May be the ban on usage of 480V or higher in residence is a factor.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Sahib said:
An arc flash accident is a very rare event, even if any such has actually happened in a residence, even though 240V is frequently used in the residence. May be the ban on usage of 480V or higher in residence is a factor.
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This is false and dangerous misinformation

Many residential services can have high fault currents. You cannot determine the fault current based on just the voltage or the location.

Apartment buildings, single family dwellings in locations that have power company networked power supplies etc.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Sahib said:
What is the maximum interrupting rating of an OCPD you used inside a residence?
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Many are only required to be 10,000. Yet there are also many that require 22,000 or more.

So I did my best to answer your question now I have a question for you.


At what fault current rating is PPE not required?
 
Sahib

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
iwire said:
I do not have a single one to share with you. However if I did they would be irrelevant as the rules are already in place to follow.
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That you do not have a single one to share with for arc flash incidents in a residence is because the American residents follow arc flash hazard safety rules or because of other factors?
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Sahib said:
That you do not have a single one to share with for arc flash incidents in a residence is because the American residents follow arc flash hazard safety rules or because of other factors?
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I don't have statistics to share with you because I have not and will not go on a hunt for irrelevant data.

If you would like to start a thread about arc flash statistics please do so but do not clutter up the OPs thread with it.
 
Sahib

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
iwire said:
I don't have statistics to share with you because I have not and will not go on a hunt for irrelevant data.

If you would like to start a thread about arc flash statistics please do so but do not clutter up the OPs thread with it.
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I think it is relevant to the OP.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
I feel comfortable taking readings on 240/480. How can you do this de-energized; remote measurements?

Adding a circuit or changing a breaker in the same, not so much. We only have one customer with 480V, and two with high-leg delta services.

If you think 120V cant ruin your day, think again. I've seen services so bad that diffusing bombs would be less nerve racking.

At least you know about arc flash and can take appropriate safety measures. My first WW op job, part of our duty was racking breakers from poco to internal power and back, Never once were we told what jamming a 480V 600A breaker into a 3000A bus would do if shtf.

eta: face shield would be my first gear to grab regardless of what osha mandates.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
JFletcher said:
I feel comfortable taking readings on 240/480.
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No offense but I don't think the OP is asking what you feel comfortable doing. :)

How can you do this de-energized; remote measurements?
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You can do it hot but you would be required to wear the correct level of PPE and a live work permit.


I am not claiming I follow all these rules myself, I am just putting the rules out there.
 
U

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
David Goodman said:
Very few people that I see working in the residential and light commercial HVACR field wear PPE. However, they routinely take voltage and amperage readings on live 240V and 480V systems.

If I follow this example in my work, it would seem that I would be exposing myself to some serious hazards. Would you agree?
Click to expand...

Yes

iwire said:
If we were to follow the rules to the letter:

  • You must never be expossed to live parts, you either have to kill the power or wear PPE.
  • If you decide to kill the power you are required to put on PPE to test that the power is off.
  • If you decide to work things hot you may only do so specifically for trouble shooting or when there is more danger in shutting down than not.
  • How much and what kind of PPE needed is based on the available fault current, at a dwelling unit that PPE might only need to be safety glasses, gloves and Cotten clothing. In another case the fault current might be so high that the PPE looks like a bomb suit.


The fact is Federal laws require your company to be teaching you these rules and enforcing policies that require you to follow those rules.

The reality is most of this gets ignored and it's a free for all.
Click to expand...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the best, most realistic answer

Sahib said:
An arc flash accident is a very rare event, even if any such has actually happened in a residence, even though 240V is frequently used in the residence.
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Completely untrue and while I don't think it would qualify as an "arc flash" to many, there have been cases of a heck of a lot of sparkin' , smokin' and flashin' at residential panels- think about when the panel cover is getting removed, main breaker is off, but cover comes into contact somehow w/ the unfused line voltage while still touching bonded can.

How often does the above mentioned scenario or a bona fide proven arc flash happen in a residence? Don't know or care and the op said he won't be in panels, though he probably will at some point.

iwire said:
So what exactly are you saying?

The OP wants to know when PPE is required, can you answer the OP?
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HVAC people working on 480v or less equipment need cat 2 per 70E.
 
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