Wire Pull

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Alwayslearningelec

Senior Member
Location
NJ
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Estimator
To do a take off(most times) is not all that hard, depending.

The problem I have sometimes depending on the scope is understanding how the electrical installation will be “built”.

For 80-90% of installs I understand HOW it’ll be done.

I have the following circumstance and would like input on only how the wire will be pulled. Setup, locations of wire reels etc. Conduit installed by others.

I have 24 sets of 4” PVC with 4 #600 XHHW copper.

  • The run is from a generator in a generator room on grade to EM switchgear room on grade. This is new construction.
  • The run is about 550’ outside and turns right up into the gear and generator.
  • There are about 5 – 90’ with a pull box in the middle of the run.


If someone could provide a brief step/step on how this pull would be done, generally speaking that would be helpful.

  1. How many runs would be pulled at a time? Assume the reels would be paralleled and you’d pull one set at a time.
  2. How many men. Assume 3.
  3. Where would reel be setup. Would there be multiple setup and breakdown.
  4. What equipment would be used to feed and pull. Tugger?? Would have to make up a pulling head obviously??


I know the labor units would cover 99% of labor required to pull but I still would like to understand how it’s done.


Thank you very much.
 
1) One raceway at a time from the pulling point closest to the building with the reels set up their. Tail off enough wire to complete the pull into the building and get it out of the way. Then pull the next one. Many supply houses can provide all 4 conductors on a single real with a pulling head already attached. This is often cost effective, especially in high labor rate areas, like mine, where the billing rate is about $2.50 or more per minute per man.
After all of the long pulls are done, set up the pulling equipment inside and complete the pull.

2) I would be looking at 4 or 5 if the conductors are on a single real, or 6 or 7 if you are using 4 reels.

3) See #1

4) Yes you would need a tugger and the correct pulling rope. If you don't get the setup with the 4 conductors on a single reel and a pulling head already attached you will need to use some device to connect the conductors to the pulling reel.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
1) One raceway at a time from the pulling point closest to the building with the reels set up their. Tail off enough wire to complete the pull into the building and get it out of the way. Then pull the next one. Many supply houses can provide all 4 conductors on a single real with a pulling head already attached. This is often cost effective, especially in high labor rate areas, like mine, where the billing rate is about $2.50 or more per minute per man.
After all of the long pulls are done, set up the pulling equipment inside and complete the pull.

2) I would be looking at 4 or 5 if the conductors are on a single real, or 6 or 7 if you are using 4 reels.

3) See #1

4) Yes you would need a tugger and the correct pulling rope. If you don't get the setup with the 4 conductors on a single reel and a pulling head already attached you will need to use some device to connect the conductors to the pulling reel.
Click to expand...
Why 4 or 5 men? Thanks.
 
horsegoer said:
Why 4 or 5 men? Thanks.
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If you are pulling the conductors out the pull box in middle of the run then pulling again through the second segment you may even want more than that to physically handle those conductors. They won't be light, even if aluminum they will be heavy enough but copper much worse.
 
horsegoer said:
Why 4 or 5 men? Thanks.
Click to expand...
one for the tugger, one to apply the pulling lube and maybe another to help guide the wire into the raceway, one or two to help spin the reel if you don't have a power feeder, and a signal man for safety.
If the pull point is a manhole, it would may be a confined space entry and require at least one more person that is not permitted to do any work. The only job is to monitor the safety of the person in the confined space.
When I did pulls that had confined space, I added at least 25% additional labor hours to cover the special permitting, equipment and attendant for the confined space entry.
 
Talk to your manufacturer/supplier..
For that size conductor and that many runs there are lots of services available.
The conductors can be supplied on reels, pre-bundled with lots of gimmcks (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7sJIv0tBjI )

I have seen the manufacturer ship on specific reels mounted on a flat bed so you can pull straight off the trailer if location allows.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
one for the tugger, one to apply the pulling lube and maybe another to help guide the wire into the raceway, one or two to help spin the reel if you don't have a power feeder, and a signal man for safety.
If the pull point is a manhole, it would may be a confined space entry and require at least one more person that is not permitted to do any work. The only job is to monitor the safety of the person in the confined space.
When I did pulls that had confined space, I added at least 25% additional labor hours to cover the special permitting, equipment and attendant for the confined space entry.
Click to expand...
What does the guy do who man’s the tugger? There’s a separate person just to apply wire lube? What is used to feed the wire in? Thanks
 
augie47 said:
Talk to your manufacturer/supplier..
For that size conductor and that many runs there are lots of services available.
The conductors can be supplied on reels, pre-bundled with lots of gimmcks (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7sJIv0tBjI )

I have seen the manufacturer ship on specific reels mounted on a flat bed so you can pull straight off the trailer if location allows.
Click to expand...
I have done this. This situation is ideal for that. Use Southwire wire and a Southwire rope. I am assuming from the description that the OP thinks he can pull straight through the middle pull box. With these parameters I am not confident, but the Southwire rope will give it a chance. Otherwise here is a suggestion. Get a large sheeve (24") hook it to a Lull and put it over the pull box. Tie off the rope, raise the lull, lower the Lull while using the tugger, then when it is at the bottom, tie off the rope and raise the Lull again.
 
Strathead said:
I have done this. This situation is ideal for that. Use Southwire wire and a Southwire rope. I am assuming from the description that the OP thinks he can pull straight through the middle pull box. With these parameters I am not confident, but the Southwire rope will give it a chance. Otherwise here is a suggestion. Get a large sheeve (24") hook it to a Lull and put it over the pull box. Tie off the rope, raise the lull, lower the Lull while using the tugger, then when it is at the bottom, tie off the rope and raise the Lull again.
Click to expand...
Thank you. It's hard for me to envision this....get a large sheeve (24") hook it to a Lull and put it over the pull box. Tie off the rope, raise the lull, lower the Lull while using the tugger, then when it is at the bottom, tie off the rope and raise the Lull again

What is a sheeve? :unsure::cry:
 
When you do a large pull like this or any pull you obviously need to have the gear and generator set before you start the wire pull? It's being pull underground and up into the equipment?
 
So this is the scenario I have. We are only pulling wire.

24 sets of 5# 600 XHHW CU running underground. Point to point is about 600’. Total footage #600 is 72,000’

27 sets of 5# 600 XHHW CU running underground. Point to point is about 700’. Total footage #600 is 94,500’

12 sets of 5# 600 XHHW CU running underground. Point to point is about 300’. Total footage #600 is 18,000’


I know( and have ot account for) there are other factors that affect time to pull but generally speaking the hours I come up with to pull this wire is a total of 7,700.

With a 4 man crew at 8 hours that’s a about 48 weeks. Almost a year. Again this is ballpark and there are other factors that push the labor up/down a bit.

It just seems like an extremely long time to for these wire pulls.
 
horsegoer said:
So this is the scenario I have. We are only pulling wire.

24 sets of 5# 600 XHHW CU running underground. Point to point is about 600’. Total footage #600 is 72,000’

27 sets of 5# 600 XHHW CU running underground. Point to point is about 700’. Total footage #600 is 94,500’

12 sets of 5# 600 XHHW CU running underground. Point to point is about 300’. Total footage #600 is 18,000’


I know( and have ot account for) there are other factors that affect time to pull but generally speaking the hours I come up with to pull this wire is a total of 7,700.

With a 4 man crew at 8 hours that’s a about 48 weeks. Almost a year. Again this is ballpark and there are other factors that push the labor up/down a bit.

It just seems like an extremely long time to for these wire pulls.
Click to expand...
to start with I think you can maybe easily divide total time by 5, as you are likely not pulling one conductor at a time but rather 5 at a time.

That gets you down to around 9 weeks, probably still high but closer to realistic as well. There was a pull box in the run if I recall, that can make a big difference if you must utilize it as a pull point vs pulling through.
 
kwired said:
to start with I think you can maybe easily divide total time by 5, as you are likely not pulling one conductor at a time but rather 5 at a time.

That gets you down to around 9 weeks, probably still high but closer to realistic as well. There was a pull box in the run if I recall, that can make a big difference if you must utilize it as a pull point vs pulling through.
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Thank you so much. That's what I don't follow about NECA labor units. The labor units is an overall unit so e.g the wire units are not for just pulling one wire, I believe. To divide the labor unit of say 45 hours per thousand by 5 would be insane....I think.

I would love to others input and labor units for wire pulls an discounting/dividing the NECA labor units by # of wires pulling at once.
 
horsegoer said:
Thank you so much. That's what I don't follow about NECA labor units. The labor units is an overall unit so e.g the wire units are not for just pulling one wire, I believe. To divide the labor unit of say 45 hours per thousand by 5 would be insane....I think.

I would love to others input and labor units for wire pulls an discounting/dividing the NECA labor units by # of wires pulling at once.
Click to expand...
You can either live with estimate hours but NECA is high use more like 20 hours a thousand. The other option is to figure rental cost for rope, tigger moving equipment every little thing that saves labor and reduce the labor, but what a pain. As my mentor used to say, it is an estimate. If you want it to be precise cost it would be called an exactimate.
 
Strathead said:
You can either live with estimate hours but NECA is high use more like 20 hours a thousand. The other option is to figure rental cost for rope, tigger moving equipment every little thing that saves labor and reduce the labor, but what a pain. As my mentor used to say, it is an estimate. If you want it to be precise cost it would be called an exactimate.
Click to expand...
Thank you . Would love to know of anyone has ever used 20 or even 25 hours a thousand for #600 in a situation where you have many many parallel sets.
 
Without spending a lot of time running the numbers I would be looking at 2000 to 2500 man hours for those pulls....maybe less if I ran some real numbers.
 
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