Wire Pull

[Alwayslearningelec]

Without spending a lot of time running the numbers I would be looking at 2000 to 2500 man hours for those pulls....maybe less if I ran some real numbers.

Thanks . So this will answer my question. How much time would you have it if were ONE set and not 24?

 

[kwired]

Thanks . So this will answer my question. How much time would you have it if were ONE set and not 24?

24 sets has some the same one time items that need to be done as for just one set.

Repetition of pretty much anything often turns into more efficiency as you go and is another factor that isn't easy to estimate. Regardless how many times you pulled conductors before when you do pretty much the exact same run 24 times you probably are doing the last one more efficiently than you did the first one.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

24 sets has some the same one time items that need to be done as for just one set.

Repetition of pretty much anything often turns into more efficiency as you go and is another factor that isn't easy to estimate. Regardless how many times you pulled conductors before when you do pretty much the exact same run 24 times you probably are doing the last one more efficiently than you did the first one.

Thanks . What are those one time items/tasks ??

 

[kwired]

Thanks . What are those one time items/tasks ??

Bringing the pulling equipment and material handling equipment to the site would likely be at the top of order of execution list. Returning said equipment after the task is done.

Now in your 24 pulls scenario there may be some tasks that get done once a day where they only get done just one time on a project that gets done in less than one day.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Bringing the pulling equipment and material handling equipment to the site would likely be at the top of order of execution list. Returning said equipment after the task is done.

Now in your 24 pulls scenario there may be some tasks that get done once a day where they only get done just one time on a project that gets done in less than one day.

Now in your 24 pulls scenario there may be some tasks that get done once a day where they only get done just one time on a project that gets done in less than one day.

I don’t follow exactly what you mean by the above . Example?

 

[kwired]

Now in your 24 pulls scenario there may be some tasks that get done once a day where they only get done just one time on a project that gets done in less than one day.

I don’t follow exactly what you mean by the above . Example?

Are you bringing the tugger or any other equipment that will be used only for this pulling task to the job just 1 time or will you be bringing it up to 24 times? There could be all sorts of minor tasks that only get done a limited number of times over the 24 pulls but definitely need done at least one time on any number of pulls.

Job that gets finished in one day - you bring tools and equipment out from trucks, trailers, job boxes one time. Job that will take several days you might be getting that equipment out and putting it away again each and every day. Takes time to do those tasks. Depending on site requirements you may have tasks you need to complete frequently that aren't even directly related to your installation, like security purpose tasks or product quality related tasks if you working in an active production facility. Could have PPE related tasks or supplies you need to take into consideration in some situations.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks . So this will answer my question. How much time would you have it if were ONE set and not 24?

Around 120 to 180.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

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Thank you. It's hard for me to envision this....get a large sheeve (24") hook it to a Lull and put it over the pull box. Tie off the rope, raise the lull, lower the Lull while using the tugger, then when it is at the bottom, tie off the rope and raise the Lull again

What is a sheeve?

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

I have done this. This situation is ideal for that. Use Southwire wire and a Southwire rope. I am assuming from the description that the OP thinks he can pull straight through the middle pull box. With these parameters I am not confident, but the Southwire rope will give it a chance. Otherwise here is a suggestion. Get a large sheeve (24") hook it to a Lull and put it over the pull box. Tie off the rope, raise the lull, lower the Lull while using the tugger, then when it is at the bottom, tie off the rope and raise the Lull again.

Keep in mind this method has a 2x multiplayer on the hook load. Your hook has to hold two time the pulling force. This 180 is 2x
Do believe the single hook on a 24" is rated at 4,000 pounds. They do have an 8,000 version so choose wisely.
For sure do a wire pull calc based on how you plan to pull it and with what.

 

[Strathead]

Thank you . Would love to know of anyone has ever used 20 or even 25 hours a thousand for #600 in a situation where you have many many parallel sets.

I have used those numbers for a single run. I would probably reduce by 30% for that many parallel. But I wouldn’t add for equipment because I wouldn’t waste my time up front. Estimates are about best guesses and I believe we usually lose money on conduit and make money on wire pulling. That pull though a pull point is really going to be the big challenge and eat up manpower.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

I have used those numbers for a single run. I would probably reduce by 30% for that many parallel. But I wouldn’t add for equipment because I wouldn’t waste my time up front. Estimates are about best guesses and I believe we usually lose money on conduit and make money on wire pulling. That pull though a pull point is really going to be the big challenge and eat up manpower.

NECA has a labor unit of around 50 hours . I don’t understand how one would use a labor units that’s half of what NECA recommends . I’ve never heard of that.

Why/how would the pull through the pull point eat up a lot of manpower?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

NECA has a labor unit of around 50 hours . I don’t understand how one would use a labor units that’s half of what NECA recommends . I’ve never heard of that.

Why/how would the pull through the pull point eat up a lot of manpower?

Because you have to spool off the tail long enough to reach where the conductors are going to be terminated, install a new pulling head, feed the wires in and pull them to the end of the run. That will probably take as much time as the actual pulling of the long run...the tugger pulling speed is between 9 and 16 feet permit after you start pulling.

 

[Strathead]

NECA has a labor unit of around 50 hours . I don’t understand how one would use a labor units that’s half of what NECA recommends . I’ve never heard of that.

Why/how would the pull through the pull point eat up a lot of manpower?

You asked who has used 20-25 hours per thousand. not 50. That would be me.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Because you have to spool off the tail long enough to reach where the conductors are going to be terminated, install a new pulling head, feed the wires in and pull them to the end of the run. That will probably take as much time as the actual pulling of the long run...the tugger pulling speed is between 9 and 16 feet permit after you start pulling

Thank you very much Don. What do you mean spool off the tail? Explain a little please, thanks
So I better understand the setup and how the pull would take place can you/someone walk me through this.
Again, one long run about 600' starting and ending in electrical rooms. Most of the run(99%) underground with a pullbox in the middle.

1. A pull rope would be pulled all the way through the run or just to the pull box?
2. Initial setup would be the reels setup in one of the electrical rooms? Pulleys/sheave would also be setup there?
3. The tugger would be by the pull box?

After conductors are pulled to the pullbox then you pull a rope through from the pullbox to the other electrical room(end point).

THen you move the tugger to the end point and setup pulleys at the pullbox?

 

[Strathead]

Thank you very much Don.
So I better understand the setup and how the pull would take place can you/someone walk me through this.
Again, one long run about 600' starting and ending in electrical rooms. Most of the run(99%) underground with a pullbox in the middle.

1. A pull rope would be pulled all the way through the run or just to the pull box?
2. Initial setup would be the reels setup in one of the electrical rooms? Pulleys/sheave would also be setup there?
3. The tugger would be by the pull box?

After conductors are pulled to the pullbox then you pull a rope through from the pullbox to the other electrical room(end point).

THen you move the tugger to the end point and setup pulleys at the pullbox?

Two things you aren't indicating that are important. How are the conduits situated in the pull box, and how many bends in each conduit run? There are many more small points that can make a difference. What rope? What kind of tugging accessories? What type of wire (Simpull etc.)? how high are the ends of the conduit off the ground? How much space is there at each end for set up and pulling. Is the ground box in the middle of a muddy field or a paved parking lot? And a myriad of other questions. Each and every pull is unique. Anyone else here that has had experience with Maxis/Southwire rope and Southwire Simpull will tell you what a difference they make. The rope alone, believe it or not will reduce your pulling pressure by 50%.

 

[Strathead]

Thank you very much Don. What do you mean spool off the tail? Explain a little please, thanks
So I better understand the setup and how the pull would take place can you/someone walk me through this.
Again, one long run about 600' starting and ending in electrical rooms. Most of the run(99%) underground with a pullbox in the middle.

1. A pull rope would be pulled all the way through the run or just to the pull box?
2. Initial setup would be the reels setup in one of the electrical rooms? Pulleys/sheave would also be setup there?
3. The tugger would be by the pull box?

After conductors are pulled to the pullbox then you pull a rope through from the pullbox to the other electrical room(end point).

THen you move the tugger to the end point and setup pulleys at the pullbox?

How are you going to pull the wire out at the pull box after you get the rope out? What are you going to do with the wire then? The conventional way to do your pull, if the wire can't be pulled from one end to the other in one pull is to sett the reels at the pull box, and pull in one direction, preferably the long one. Then in unspool the remainder of the wire, keeping it clean, and feed it in the other conduit. Does this explain a little, why 25 hours per thousand? Generally for these underground pulls you wouldn't use sheaves. My first mentioned method is a way to prevent wire laying in a muddy field .

 

[kwired]

Thank you very much Don. What do you mean spool off the tail? Explain a little please, thanks
So I better understand the setup and how the pull would take place can you/someone walk me through this.
Again, one long run about 600' starting and ending in electrical rooms. Most of the run(99%) underground with a pullbox in the middle.

1. A pull rope would be pulled all the way through the run or just to the pull box?
2. Initial setup would be the reels setup in one of the electrical rooms? Pulleys/sheave would also be setup there?
3. The tugger would be by the pull box?

After conductors are pulled to the pullbox then you pull a rope through from the pullbox to the other electrical room(end point).

THen you move the tugger to the end point and setup pulleys at the pullbox?

A pull box in a run turns it into two separate pulls in a way, unless the box is there strictly to get around the 360 degree bends in one run rule but you pull straight through anyway. Something tells me you will not be pulling straight through on this particular run though - you will pull conductors out at the pull box, enough to make it through the second part of the run, then pull the second part of the run. That involves additional conductor handling and setting up the tugger at two locations instead of one at the very least. It very well might require more manpower to handle those conductors at the pull box than at the start of the run where it will likely be dispensed more directly off reel(s).

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

A pull box in a run turns it into two separate pulls in a way, unless the box is there strictly to get around the 360 degree bends in one run rule but you pull straight through anyway. Something tells me you will not be pulling straight through on this particular run though - you will pull conductors out at the pull box, enough to make it through the second part of the run, then pull the second part of the run. That involves additional conductor handling and setting up the tugger at two locations instead of one at the very least. It very well might require more manpower to handle those conductors at the pull box than at the start of the run where it will likely be dispensed more directly off reel(s).

Thanks. So if the run is 500' and the pull box is location midway(250') you would be the 2nd half of the run(250') all the way out of the pull box then back in? That can't be right.

 

[kwired]

Thanks. So if the run is 500' and the pull box is location midway(250') you would be the 2nd half of the run(250') all the way out of the pull box then back in? That can't be right.

If you don't want to splice the conductors in the box how else you going to do it?

You can pull conductors out from one side and push them into other side at same time - that would not result in having all 250 feet laying on the ground at one time, but you still pulled that same 250 feet out then pushed back in either way, effectively making it two 250 foot pulls instead of one 500 foot pull.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

How are you going to pull the wire out at the pull box after you get the rope out? What are you going to do with the wire then? The conventional way to do your pull, if the wire can't be pulled from one end to the other in one pull is to sett the reels at the pull box, and pull in one direction, preferably the long one. Then in unspool the remainder of the wire, keeping it clean, and feed it in the other conduit. Does this explain a little, why 25 hours per thousand? Generally for these underground pulls you wouldn't use sheaves. My first mentioned method is a way to prevent wire laying in a muddy field .

What do you mean how am I going to pull the wire out? THe rope is in the pipe and you use that to pull the wire out. Maybe I'm not following.
So if you were to set the reels at the pullbox and pull one half through you would have to unspool the remainder fo the 2nd half of the wire off the spool? Geez that seems like a lot of wiring on the ground and a lot of extra handling.

Is that what always happens at a pull point? You need to pull ALL the wire out?