Eaton BR and Siemens QP

Jraef said:
“Will it fit?” is not a valid approach. The correct question is “Can it be used?”

Read NEC 110.3. If the instructions FOR THE LISTING OF THE PRODUCT does not say that you can, you cannot.it really isn’t any more complicated than that (unless you are talking about old panels).
Click to expand...
You and I know it, but Joe Homeowner doesn’t care! LOL!
 
hillbilly1 said:
A counter guy at my local supply house was telling a customer that they would fit, I told them I didn’t think they would, but the counter guy was insisting it would. I haven’t tried it, but I assumed he knew his product. I reckon it’s true what they say when you AssUme! LOL!
Click to expand...
It does fit, just not as well as the Homeline breaker does.
 
Fred B said:
Those are off brand in that they don't make their own breakers.
Click to expand...
Yes I know. That said I believe Midwest is or was at one time a division of General Electric, and it used to be any factory installed breakers in their equipment was normally GE breakers. Milbank tended to use Siemens breakers for anything factory installed from my observations. But the label listed most other breakers of similar design as acceptable.
 
infinity said:
I'm guessing that the guilty party is UL since they likely wrote the standard. Or maybe it's NEMA, either way the public is getting hosed because these circuit breakers (absent Square D QO) are almost all identical.
Click to expand...
And the original Cutler Hammer CH series.

That is for what is still in current production, there were the FPE stablock, Pushmatic, and a few others that were different enough that they wouldn't interchange with anything else.
 
jaggedben said:
Not sure you got the point.

For the Eaton Type BR/Type C/Type A series, the presently manufactured new breakers have the types written on the breaker that match the old panel labels. You don't need a chart, it's right on the breaker and panels, as long as the panel label is still extant.
Click to expand...
Westinghouse Quicklag is an exception to that. It fits BR and Siemens QP fine, but old panels did not use either QP or BR labels.
Emil-Westinghouse sold that product line to what became Eaton, but the type name did not survive.
--
Why all this mess? Because a few bad actors stuffed poorly fitted breakers in to a enough panels to create enough stink.
Most of the 1" breakers fit tight and nice, and will work just fine regardless of the fine print.
 
LarryFine said:
I have seen a CH breaker in a QO panel, or the other way around, I don't remember which.
Click to expand...
The bus connection is pretty much the same but the rail is different. My guess is something needed modification to make it so it would fit well enough to put the cover on.
 
jim dungar said:
Until the lawyers get involved.😡
Click to expand...
Exactly. IF there is a fire that is in any way attributable to a breaker that was not listed to be used in a panel, its a Code violation and an insurance company can (if they are looking for an excuse) use that to deny payout for the damages. Has it happened often? Not often, but I have seen it. I did some investigation for a customer in around 2008 who lost almost half of his house in a fire attributed to electrical (as most unknown fires are). Farmers Insurance investigator found a Murray breaker in an ITE panel and they went to the local Siemens distributor to get a letter stating that ITE were the same as Siemens, and that Siemens owned Murray and the Murray breakers were the same. The distributor came to me for that letter, which we had already printed out in bulk.
 
brycenesbitt said:
Still got a copy to post?
Click to expand...
This is why I keep a 1/2 dozen unopened Connecticut Electric classified breakers still in retail packaging.
1-pole and 2-pole of the commonly used sizes.
Its really such a random odd quirk that CE paid for all that testing on a plain old QP Siemens breaker.
 
tortuga said:
This is why I keep a 1/2 dozen unopened Connecticut Electric classified breakers still in retail packaging.
1-pole and 2-pole of the commonly used sizes.
Its really such a random odd quirk that CE paid for all that testing on a plain old QP Siemens breaker.
Click to expand...
Wait, so it's really just a Siemens QP breaker in CE packaging? It's not labeled differently?
 
tortuga said:
Thanks to Connecticut Electric (CE) for paying for the UL Classified testing of Siemens QP line you can use a
full size standard QP (No GFCI / AFCI / GFPE) as a Classified any of the following list of panelboards.
No additional mark or stamp is required on the QP Breaker to use it as a Classified, you just need one still sealed in the Connecticut Electric packaging. See photo in post 27
As soon as you open the package there is no way to tell the Siemens breaker from any other.

Note also the absence of HOM
Click to expand...
Here's the current sell page for that line:

https://www.connecticut-electric.co...cuit-breakers-for-pos-interchangeable-type-tb
It seems like they now add a sticker to the breaker.

e18736e3895aa970b32db25c4fb4.jpg

Description:
Interchangeable circuit breaker. American Switch, Arrow-Hart, Bryant, Challenger, Cutler-Hammer, Electricenter, Frank Adams, GTE Sylvania, General Switch, General Electric, Gould, Montgomery Ward, Siemens. Murray, Thomas & Betts, Westinghouse. 10,000 AIC. Twin 1-pole, 20A/20A

VPKICBQ115 same as Q115U
VPKICBQ120 same as Q120U
VPKICBQ130 same as Q130U

VPKICBQ215
VPKICBQ220
VPKICBQ230
VPKICBQ235
VPKICBQ240
VPKICBQ245
VPKICBQ250
VPKICBQ260

VPKICBQ1515 1" 15A 15A
VPKICBQ1520 1" 15A 20A

VPKICBQ2100 2" 100A
VPKICBQ2020 2" 20A 20A
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top