200.7 Using white wire as ungrounded conductor

[LarryFine]

Isn't white (marked or taped) only supposed to be used as the point in a dead end three/four way system?

Yes, and the same rule applies: it should be the hot supply.

 

[flashlight]

One other comment regarding the "spider" system-- having been
inconvenienced by this system 10-15 years ago, when people changed
over to low voltage electronic light fixtures, the dimmer for those required a white (grounded) conductor at the switch box, so since then I would always pull a 12/3 to the switch if the feed landed at the ceiling box. Less common problem now, due to advances in xfmr technology.

 

[LarryFine]

. . . I would always pull a 12/3 to the switch if the feed landed at the ceiling box.

Also helpful if a fan/light is installed.

 

[raider1]

If proposal 9-95 passes the comment stage then a grounded conductor will be required at most switch locations in the 2011 NEC.

9-95 Log #1160 NEC-P09 Final Action: Accept in Principle
(404.2(C) (New) )
_______________________________________________________________
Submitter: Vince Baclawski, National Electrical Manufacturers Association
(NEMA)
Recommendation: Add a new subparagraph 404.2(C) and exception to read as
follows:
404.2 Switch Connections.
(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches control lighting
loads supplied by a grounded general purpose branch circuit, a grounded circuit
conductor shall be provided at the switch location.
Exception: Grounded conductors shall not be required where conductors for
switches controlling lighting loads enter the device box through a raceway.

The CMP also added this:

Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Accept the proposal as modified by revising the proposed exception to read as
follows:
The grounded circuit conductor shall be permitted to be omitted from the
switch enclosure where either of the conditions in (1) or (2) apply:
(1) Conductors for switches controlling lighting loads enter the device box
through a raceway.
(2) Cable assemblies for switches controlling lighting enter the box through a
framing cavity that is open at the top or bottom on the same floor level, or
through a wall, floor, or ceiling that is unfinished on one side.
Panel Statement: This exception should only be applied in cases where
compliance with the normal requirements is so difficult that covert attempts to
evade the rules would be likely.

Chris

 

[flashlight]

Also helpful if a fan/light is installed.

Probably more of a common situation than my example.

If proposal 9-95 passes the comment stage then a grounded conductor will be required at most switch locations in the 2011 NEC.

How many times have you seen where somebody has decided to add a receptacle at what was originally a switch box, and has solved the no neutral problem by bonding a wire to the metal box ? I have seen that at least half a dozen times. I know the code is not written to protect DIYers, but at least this measure would prevent that...

 

[iwire]

This exception should only be applied in cases where compliance with the normal requirements is so difficult that covert attempts to evade the rules would be likely.

What the ......

So now inspectors have to be able to predict the future?:roll:

 

[roger]

What the ......

So now inspectors have to be able to predict the future?:roll:

It's such a stupid proposal and waste of natural resources the CMP had to follow suit with something stupid themselves.

I fail to see any safety issue here, it is more of an attempt to make the NEC a design manual

Roger

 

[flashlight]

It's such a stupid proposal and waste of natural resources the CMP had to follow suit with something stupid themselves.

I fail to see any safety issue here, it is more of an attempt to make the NEC a design manual

Roger

It was a safety issue when unqualified persons "jerry-rigged" so as to put
a receptacle in a switch box w/o a neutral. But maybe your point is that the NEC is not there to anticipate/avert actions by unqualified people.

Re- waste of resources, that's a good point. Is that also your feeling
about pulling "spare" conductors ?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Just like my grand-daddy's old farm house.
He tied strings to each door jamb.
Nowadays, we call it a four-way switch.

I thought those old door switches were called "doorway" switched.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

It's such a stupid proposal and waste of natural resources the CMP had to follow suit with something stupid themselves.

I fail to see any safety issue here, it is more of an attempt to make the NEC a design manual

Roger

Sometimes I wonder what the CMP groups are discussing to come up with some new code. This one in particular. Who are they making SAFER with this new code?

 

[jimport]

But the CMP can leave obvious inconsistancies in like the branch circuit for the range hood. If it is hard wired it can be on the lighting circuit, cord and plug it needs a dedicated circuit.

I heard that was the intent behind the cord and plug option was so that the circuit was adequate for the possible future usage. Do they think no one would ever change out a hard-wired range hood for a microwave? Hello McFly.