310.15(b)(6)

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Dennis Alwon

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Mike, the entire load does not have to be mentioned in 550 to apply. Articles one thru four are your basic rules that are modified by other articles.

90.3 Code Arrangement.
This Code is divided into the introduction and nine chapters, as shown in Figure 90.3. Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 apply generally; Chapters 5, 6, and 7 apply to special occupancies, special equipment, or other special conditions. These latter chapters supplement or modify the general rules. Chapters 1 through 4 apply except as amended by Chapters 5, 6, and 7 for the particular conditions.
 

jxofaltrds

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Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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Mike, the entire load does not have to be mentioned in 550 to apply. Articles one thru four are your basic rules that are modified by other articles.
Dennis I think that they need not be modified.

If I install a pool which article do I start with?

What about an airplane hanger?

IF it is a manufactured home, IMHO, I must start in 550. Agreed?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Dennis I think that they need not be modified.

If I install a pool which article do I start with?

What about an airplane hanger?

IF it is a manufactured home, IMHO, I must start in 550. Agreed?
If you do a pool you start with Chapter 1-4 and if 680 tells us something different then we do it--- or we are suppose to do it.

Does 680 need to tell us to drive a ground rod at the pool building that has a panel? Does 680 need to tell you what wire size to pull to the motor? It gives us a minimum for grounds etc. but it does not have to relate everything Chapters 1-4 already state.
 

jxofaltrds

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Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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ESI
If you do a pool you start with Chapter 1-4 and if 680 tells us something different then we do it--- or we are suppose to do it.

Does 680 need to tell us to drive a ground rod at the pool building that has a panel? Does 680 need to tell you what wire size to pull to the motor? It gives us a minimum for grounds etc. but it does not have to relate everything Chapters 1-4 already state.
I start with 680!

If I need power for this pool I look at the other article that may or may not apply.

Let me make post #21 regarding kitchens. Do kitchens apply to pools? Should I address this article first?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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I start with 680!

If I need power for this pool I look at the other article that may or may not apply.

Let me make post #21 regarding kitchens. Do kitchens apply to pools? Should I address this article first?
Mike that borders on ridiculous. Of course not unless a Kitchen is involved at the pool. If you are arguing semantics then I am not interested in this discussion.

IMO, 310.15(B)(6) applies to mobile homes just as art. 310.16 applies to the home except were modified elsewhere.

No-- washers and dryers don't need to be applied to pools either....:roll:
 

jxofaltrds

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Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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Mike that borders on ridiculous. Of course not unless a Kitchen is involved at the pool. If you are arguing semantics then I am not interested in this discussion.

IMO, 310.15(B)(6) applies to mobile homes just as art. 310.16 applies to the home except were modified elsewhere.

No-- washers and dryers don't need to be applied to pools either....:roll:
Dennis you are correct.

But we start in the applicable article first.

If you were putting in a temporary service for a constuction project which article do you look at first?
 

Jim W in Tampa

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Tampa Florida
Mike that borders on ridiculous. Of course not unless a Kitchen is involved at the pool. If you are arguing semantics then I am not interested in this discussion.

IMO, 310.15(B)(6) applies to mobile homes just as art. 310.16 applies to the home except were modified elsewhere.

No-- washers and dryers don't need to be applied to pools either....:roll:
There are times that codes conflict such as cooking areas next to a pool. We must take the more restrictive code. I can not put a frig receptacle any closer than the pool or hot tub code allows. Some are a real pain to work around each other
 

Dennis Alwon

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Dennis you are correct.

But we start in the applicable article first.
Mike where you start does not matter, IMO. That is not what the discussion was about. You started this by stating that since article 550 did not mention the entire load then it did not apply. I totally disagree. That would be true if art. 550 specifically stated the entire load in art. 310.15(6) need not apply.
 

jxofaltrds

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Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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ESI
Mike where you start does not matter, IMO. That is not what the discussion was about. You started this by stating that since article 550 did not mention the entire load then it did not apply. I totally disagree. That would be true if art. 550 specifically stated the entire load in art. 310.15(6) need not apply.
So I should ignore 550.1 Scope?
 

roger

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Fl
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Electrician
There are times that codes conflict such as cooking areas next to a pool. We must take the more restrictive code. I can not put a frig receptacle any closer than the pool or hot tub code allows. Some are a real pain to work around each other
Where is there a conflict? If you're near a pool you simply have to comply with all of article 680, end of story. There may be a disgruntled customer but there is no conflict.

Answer this, if you want to put a refrigerator in a paint spray booth what article will you use for the installation?
Now explain where there is a conflict between the applicable article and the receptacle placement that may be desired by a customer.

Roger
 

jxofaltrds

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Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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ESI
Did I say that? I don't think so and it has nothing to do with your original statement. However you say to ignore chapters 1-4. Did you say that??? I think you did by saying that art. 550 doesn't req. what article 310 does.
Possibly. You must start at 550.15 before you go to 310.

Parts of 210 do not apply. You start at 550.13
 

jwelectric

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Location
North Carolina
Possibly. You must start at 550.15 before you go to 310.

Parts of 210 do not apply. You start at 550.13
Now which is it???? 13 or 15 or both???????

Personally I would look at 215.2(A)(3) which addresses the subject matter to a tee.

Remember that the feeder does not have to have an ampacity greater than the service conductors. It does not say the conductor itself does not have to be larger.
 

jxofaltrds

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Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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ESI
Now which is it???? 13 or 15 or both???????

Personally I would look at 215.2(A)(3) which addresses the subject matter to a tee.

Remember that the feeder does not have to have an ampacity greater than the service conductors. It does not say the conductor itself does not have to be larger.
Dennis and I were arguing something else.

Your example only addresses a 'mobile' home. For manufactured homes you must use 550.
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Dennis and I were arguing something else.

Your example only addresses a 'mobile' home. For manufactured homes you must use 550.


Mobile Home. A factory-assembled structure or structures transportable in one or more sections that are built on a permanent chassis and designed to be used as a dwelling without a permanent foundation where connected to the required utilities and that include the plumbing, heating, air-conditioning, and electrical systems contained therein.
For the purpose of this Code and unless otherwise indicated, the term mobile home includes manufactured homes.


Now who would have ever gussed that?
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
A 8 foot wide by 40 foot long single wide trailer or mobile home if you so choose to call it that that when I buy it I get the manufacturer to list it as a HUD approved manufactured home will comply with 550.32(B).

Just how do you understand this deal of mobile and manufactured home classification?

Also take a good look at 550.33(B) again remember it is not greater in ampacity it does not say bigger in size.
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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ESI
A 8 foot wide by 40 foot long single wide trailer or mobile home if you so choose to call it that that when I buy it I get the manufacturer to list it as a HUD approved manufactured home will comply with 550.32(B).

Just how do you understand this deal of mobile and manufactured home classification?

Also take a good look at 550.33(B) again remember it is not greater in ampacity it does not say bigger in size.
Mobile VS Manufactured.

In 550.2 it said that they are basically the same. Unless otherwise indicated.

550.32 is one of those examples.

I have no problem with 550.33(B).
 
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