AFCI "Myth"

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partimer31 said:
. . . a toggle switch in of itself does not utilize power . . .
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The Article 100 definition of Outlet does not use power in the definition, only current.

The current passing through the switch is there because the switch is ON and utilization equipment is "taking" the current.

Nothing in the Code prohibits one outlet being in series with another outlet.
 
The switch (control) is not "utilizing" only the outlet is. :) Maybe his floods are photo controlled, but anyway put it all on the AFCI. Smokes are outlets though they do utilize.
 
tryinghard said:
The switch (control) is not "utilizing" only the outlet is.
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Think of the standard 15 A 125 V duplex TR receptacle and tell me how the receptacle itself utilizes power.

Again, the Outlet (Article 100 Definition) is where the current leaves the Premises Wiring (System) on its way to the Utilization Equipment.

The Code says nothing about the current re-entering the Premises Wiring (System).
 
mivey said:
But I guess they could: motion detector switch...lighted switch...
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Well now we have more than a switch don't we? A switch simply makes and breaks wires the same as a wire nut does or putting the wires together with piece of electrical tape, it doesn't utilize anything.

There is no definition of "Switch Outlet" in article 100, it doesn't exist as an outlet as far as the NEC is concerned.

The NEC took pains to specifically define what items are to be considered "outlets", as follows.


Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.


Power Outlet. An enclosed assembly that may include receptacles, circuit breakers, fuseholders, fused switches, buses, and watt-hour meter mounting means; intended to supply and control power to mobile homes, recreational vehicles, park trailers, or boats or to serve as a means for distributing power required to operate mobile or temporarily installed equipment.

If someone wants to use the argument that "fused switches" are included in the definition of "Power Outlet" they are also saying that the screw holes and metal for mounting the metering equipment is an outlet as well, and regardless, it is specifically refering to "fused switches"


Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed.

Receptacle. A receptacle is a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke.
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Al, forgetting your personal feeling on the issue, please show us where the words "installed at the outlet" appear in any definition of switch, I am including the switch definitions from the 2008

Switch, Bypass Isolation.A manually operated device used in conjunction with a transfer switch to provide a means of directly connecting load conductors to a power source and of disconnecting the transfer switch.

Switch, General-Use. A switch intended for use in general distribution and branch circuits. It is rated in amperes, and it is capable of interrupting its rated current at its rated voltage.

Switch, General-Use Snap. A form of general-use switch constructed so that it can be installed in device boxes or on box covers, or otherwise used in conjunction with wiring systems recognized by this Code.

Switch, Isolating. A switch intended for isolating an electrical circuit from the source of power. It has no interrupting rating, and it is intended to be operated only after the circuit has been opened by some other means.

Switch, Motor-Circuit. A switch rated in horsepower that is capable of interrupting the maximum operating overload current of a motor of the same horsepower rating as the switch at the rated voltage.

Switch, Transfer. An automatic or nonautomatic device for transferring one or more load conductor connections from one power source to another.
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Just some food for thought and that is all I am contributing. :D

Roger
 
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roger said:
Well now we have more than a switch don't we? A switch simply makes and breaks wires the same as a wire nut does or putting the wires together with piece of electrical tape, it doesn't utilize anything.
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OK Larry.:grin: I'll correct my statement to say that a switch may also have utilization equipment on the same yoke or have utilization equipment incorporated in the switching device.
 
mivey said:
OK Larry.:grin: I'll correct my statement to say that a switch may also have utilization equipment on the same yoke or have utilization equipment incorporated in the switching device.
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Sorry, Mivey

Roger
 
roger said:
Well now we have more than a switch don't we? A switch simply makes and breaks wires the same as a wire nut does or putting the wires together with piece of electrical tape, it doesn't utilize anything.
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This is the biggest incorrect meme about the issue. An Outlet is current, only, passing a point . . . current taken by utilization equipment somewhere in the circuit of the current. A Receptacle doesn't utilize anything either.
roger said:
There is no definition of "Switch Outlet" in article 100, it doesn't exist as an outlet as far as the NEC is concerned.
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Because the Code is silent about "Switch Outlet" doesn't prove the negative that there is no Switch Outlet.

But I'll take my four Code citations (Post #21) over your Code silence. :)
 
mivey said:
Mr Fine will be devastated.:grin:
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LarryFine said:
Maybe, but he's still in the minority.
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Not at the end. :grin:

Add:
[Camacho and Cusack run into each other in a public building]
Luis Comacho: One day, I would like to give you a gift of a Columbian neck-tie.
[Camacho's underlings laugh]
Luis Camacho: It's very special. You slit the throat, pull out the tongue and on you, (Camacho laughs), it would look beautiful.
Cusack: [smirking] Why don't you give it to me right now?
 
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And, to be very, very clear: In the entire "Big Oops, Need Suggestions" thread, I never state that a "switch is an outlet". Read it, and you will never find that I say this.

I am still not saying that a switch is an outlet.

Rather, "An Outlet occurs in a switch used as a Controller."
 
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