Another what would you do

electricmanscott · Jun 17, 2009

Did some misc wiring for a guy. Noticed new pool installation. Guy inquires about having a switch for the pump inside the house. I suggest timer.

Scope out the setup and find, 20A breaker feeding #14 nm through basement to j box. UF from J box to pool pump receptacle. Twistlock receptacle with no GFI protection. Convienience receptacle 4 feet from pool. #18 insulated solid attached to bonding lug run to pool etc.

I counted 10 violations and explained them to the guy.

I let him know that if he wanted the timer installed I'd only do it if I rewired the entire setup properly. His response was "well it's working fine so I probably won't worry about it".

Doubt I'll ever hear from them again.

480sparky · Jun 17, 2009

I won't push the issue and do a hard sell on the violations. I have them sign a form stating I have informed them of the known problems that exist.

Here's a price to install the timer, and here's a price to fix the problems. I can't force people to be smart.

Rewire · Jun 17, 2009

I would have billed for a 15 Amp GFI breaker and timer and went down the road happy.

Ohmy · Jun 17, 2009

electricmanscott said:
I let him know that if he wanted the timer installed I'd only do it if I rewired the entire setup properly. His response was "well it's working fine so I probably won't worry about it".

Doubt I'll ever hear from them again.

I agree with you. Your a professional electrician who does professional work on professional installations. There is always another job, even in this economy.

sawdust454 · Jun 17, 2009

Ohmy said:
I agree with you. Your a professional electrician who does professional work on professional installations. There is always another job, even in this economy.

I could not agree more, the job is not worth the liability.

resistance · Jun 17, 2009

480sparky said:
I won't push the issue and do a hard sell on the violations. I have them sign a form stating I have informed them of the known problems that exist.

Here's a price to install the timer, and here's a price to fix the problems. I can't force people to be smart.

This is certainly what I would do!

Riograndeelectric · Jun 17, 2009

OK so how can legally work on this circuit with out having it to code..
IMO I think it would be a volition to work on the circuit and not bring it to code and make it safe. how can you have some one sign a letter stating that they are aware for the violations and the safety hazards associated with the violations and not be held accountable.
I would have walked away form the job as I do on many jobs when I see that there are violations on the circuit I am working on.

Power Tech · Jun 17, 2009

Rewire said:
I would have billed for a 15 Amp GFI breaker and timer and went down the road happy.

GFI breakers are not allowed for pools.

Power Tech · Jun 17, 2009

sawdust454 said:
I could not agree more, the job is not worth the liability.

That would be my call too. Someone dies and everybody gets sued.

Dennis Alwon · Jun 17, 2009

Power Tech said:
GFI breakers are not allowed for pools.

Huh.... look at art. 680.22 to start.

Rewire · Jun 17, 2009

I did not realize we had so many lawyes on this forum.

electricmanscott · Jun 17, 2009

Power Tech said:
GFI breakers are not allowed for pools.

Hey are you the guy that did this pool?

electricmanscott · Jun 17, 2009

Riograndeelectric said:
OK so how can legally work on this circuit with out having it to code..
IMO I think it would be a volition to work on the circuit and not bring it to code and make it safe. how can you have some one sign a letter stating that they are aware for the violations and the safety hazards associated with the violations and not be held accountable.
I would have walked away form the job as I do on many jobs when I see that there are violations on the circuit I am working on.

In Mass I can work on something without bringing the rest of whatever it happens to be that I'm working on up to code. That is provided I do not increase the magnitude of the violation.

In this particular case it's all or nothing for me.

iwire · Jun 17, 2009

What would I do?

It should be obvious, first cut the service at the pole, then pull the service conductors out all the way to the panel.

Cut off all branch circuits and remove the panel.

Now call a demolition company and have the home and pool removed, have landscapers come in and make it look like there was never a home or pool there.

Now the owners will probably not be happy, it's OK, it is your duty to kill them for their own good.

To do any less would be criminal.

iwire · Jun 17, 2009

Riograndeelectric said:
OK so how can legally work on this circuit with out having it to code..
IMO I think it would be a volition to work on the circuit and not bring it to code and make it safe.

Scott s in MA and it is spelled out fairly clearly. :smile:

electricmanscott · Jun 17, 2009

iwire said:
Now the owners will probably not be happy, it's OK, it is your duty to kill them for their own good.

DUH! That's the first thing I did. After I had them sign a check of course.

ceb58 · Jun 17, 2009

iwire said:
Scott s in MA and it is spelled out fairly clearly. :smile:

Bob, let me ask this. In rule 4 it says " the owner shall be notified in writing by the authority enforcing this code". Who would be the authority? In this situation would Scott be the authority? Or would an inspector have to be called in to verify the violations to make the process official?
I wish NC had wording like this. Your rules dont leave much gray area.

LarryFine · Jun 17, 2009

electricmanscott said:
Doubt I'll ever hear from them again.

At least not until they show up on the 11:00 news. :roll:

480sparky said:
I have them sign a form stating I have informed them of the known problems that exist.

I can't force people to be smart.

Can you force them to sign the violations form? As a customer, I'd be quite hesitant to sign a form claiming I know about the violations.

However, these are really issues he has with the first electrician (if he was one.)

iwire said:
What would I do?

It should be obvious, first cut the service at the pole, then pull the service conductors out all the way to the panel.

Cut off all branch circuits and remove the panel.

Now call a demolition company and have the home and pool removed, have landscapers come in and make it look like there was never a home or pool there.

Now the owners will probably not be happy, it's OK, it is your duty to kill them for their own good.

To do any less would be criminal.

"Is this that new thing called sarcasm?" ~ Shallow Hal

480sparky · Jun 17, 2009

LarryFine said:
...........Can you force them to sign the violations form? As a customer, I'd be quite hesitant to sign a form claiming I know about the violations.........

Absolutely not. If they ask why I'm using such a form, I simply reply that I need to fill it out so when their house burns down, I have some sort of legal defence when the sue me. But simply asking them makes the point.

mikeames · Jun 17, 2009

Even though I am in agreement with a "FORM" I bet it would hold little value if someone were killed because of blatantly dangerous situation that a professional failed to correct. I am not advocating this I am just making a poin that I think lawyers and legal course is so crazy sometimes that even innocent peopl get burned. I could hear it now.....

"Well the professional should have know how dangerous this was and therfor shoudl not have been satasified with just a form"

I dont have a better method I am just saying I dont think a form is wacko lawyer proof. I guess thats why we have insurance.... to make lawyers rich.

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