are crimps acceptable for joining wires

[K8MHZ]

I would much rather use a butt spice on solid than a Wago or SpliceLine connector.

Reason being?

I know that many equate the type of connection push in connectors make to back stabbed receptacles and because of that feel they are inferior.

From what I have read, the pressure and surface area in the connectors is greater than in receptacles. Also, the push in connectors are clear so at a glance one can see if the conductor is inserted properly or not. That makes them a bit more fool proof than the blind connections in both back stab receptacles and butt splice connectors.

I think time will tell. If push in connectors start failing, I am sure this forum will be one of the first to discuss it.

 

[peter d]

Reason being?

I know that many equate the type of connection push in connectors make to back stabbed receptacles and because of that feel they are inferior.

From what I have read, the pressure and surface area in the connectors is greater than in receptacles. Also, the push in connectors are clear so at a glance one can see if the conductor is inserted properly or not. That makes them a bit more fool proof than the blind connections in both back stab receptacles and butt splice connectors.

I think time will tell. If push in connectors start failing, I am sure this forum will be one of the first to discuss it.

I just don't trust a piece of spring steel to make a good connection long term, no matter how high quality it is and how much better it is than a stab-in. I've used them on ballast connections and will continue to do so, but I just can't get onboard with them for anything that is high current carrying.

 

[K8MHZ]

I just don't trust a piece of spring steel to make a good connection long term, no matter how high quality it is and how much better it is than a stab-in. I've used them on ballast connections and will continue to do so, but I just can't get onboard with them for anything that is high current carrying.

I think many are holding off to see if the push in connectors can stand the test of time. Me, too.

There are spots where the push in connectors are easier to work with than wire nuts, especially working on re-mods with old wiring stuffed in small boxes.

They are a godsend when faced with very short conductors in narrow boxes.

I stuck a couple of them in a box in my basement just to see first hand how resilient they are. So far, they look like the day they were installed.

 

[kwired]

I just don't trust a piece of spring steel to make a good connection long term, no matter how high quality it is and how much better it is than a stab-in. I've used them on ballast connections and will continue to do so, but I just can't get onboard with them for anything that is high current carrying.

Your typical "wire nut" has a spring steel piece in it that helps make the connection.

 

[K8MHZ]

Your typical "wire nut" has a spring steel piece in it that helps make the connection.

And both the wire nuts and the push in connectors take advantage of that design to safely endure thermal cycling by compensating for expansion and contraction without compromising the connection . A crimp connector has no such compensating device. At least when using crimps on stranded wire, there is some room for give and take, but not on a solid conductor.

 

[peter d]

Your typical "wire nut" has a spring steel piece in it that helps make the connection.

That's not even close to being a valid comparison. A wire nut holds the copper together in a direct connection in hard plastic, while a Wago utilizes the spring steel to carry the current, making it part of the circuit path and therefore subject to thermal cycling. And besides, wire nuts have very long and reliable track record. Push in connectors have no such track record at this time.

 

[peter d]

I think many are holding off to see if the push in connectors can stand the test of time. Me, too.

There are spots where the push in connectors are easier to work with than wire nuts, especially working on re-mods with old wiring stuffed in small boxes.

They are a godsend when faced with very short conductors in narrow boxes.

I stuck a couple of them in a box in my basement just to see first hand how resilient they are. So far, they look like the day they were installed.

I highly doubt I will ever trust them, but that's just me. Call me old fashioned.

 

[iwire]

I have both in the truck and use both.

Can't beat a six port wago for making up those pesky green wires.

 

[iwire]

Call me old fashioned.

You are old fashioned and white as rice.

 

[peter d]

I have both in the truck and use both.

Can't beat a six port wago for making up those pesky green wires.

The Master of Electricity has spoken.

 

[peter d]

You are old fashioned and white as rice.

No denying that.

 

[JFletcher]

That's not even close to being a valid comparison. A wire nut holds the copper together in a direct connection in hard plastic, while a Wago utilizes the spring steel to carry the current, making it part of the circuit path and therefore subject to thermal cycling. And besides, wire nuts have very long and reliable track record. Push in connectors have no such track record at this time.

Wagos have been in use for 40+ years.

http://www.wago.us/wago/about-us/history/

fwiw, the idea of stabbing every connection in a circuit doesnt sit well with me either, even tho I like Wagos and they come factory equipped in just about every can light now.

 

[peter d]

Wagos have been in use for 40+ years.

http://www.wago.us/wago/about-us/history/

fwiw, the idea of stabbing every connection in a circuit doesnt sit well with me either, even tho I like Wagos and they come factory equipped in just about every can light now.

Yes, but they have a limited track record as far as observable success and failure rate here in the US. They are still not very common despite gaining a lot of popularity in the last 5-10 years.

 

[JFletcher]

Yes, but they have a limited track record as far as observable success and failure rate here in the US. They are still not very common despite gaining a lot of popularity in the last 5-10 years.

I agree. I also think 2+ wires twisted together is the best possible connection when joining smaller wires. Copper to copper, no intermediate. Wire nuts are only for insulation; the wires should remain locked together w/o them. I just dont see a wago or other push in connector carrying 60+A when there is a fault. I want the OCPD to trip, not anything in the circuit to act as a fuseable link.

 

[jap]

I'll get shot down with K8MHZ also.

I don't use those types of butt splices on solid wire either.
It's purely a personal dislike of using them with solid wire.

Mostly because the crimper I keep in my pouch, if using solid wire, doesn't make contact all the way around the conductor when its crimped.
But you could chalk that up to using the wrong tool, which is fine, but I still wont use them with the right tool on solid wire.

On stranded wire, the wire spreads out and fills up the crimp and seems to make a decent connection.

To me it's comparable to biting down on a rope vs biting down on a piece of pipe of the same size.
I think you could pull the pipe out of my mouth way easier than the rope.

On the other hand the wagos I've came across to make a good connection and I tend to trust them without concern although I don't back stab receptacles.
Imagine that.

The Yellow quick, connects that come with most new linear flourescent fixtures I don't like them, but I do like the Orange Quick Disconnects by ideal, they just seem to hold better.
As far as using something needed to carry a 60 amp load, I don't use a wago or a wirenut to make that connection.

But, to each his own.

I'm just a picky B_ _ _ _ _ _.

JAP>

 

[Jim1959]

Having been a service electrician much of my career, I've learned to lean on my experience. Regardless of approvals I will not crimp a solid wire. I've haven't seen a lot fail, but it didn't take many to convince me to not be responsible for the possibility. For instance if I am dealing with solid wire and a 1/4" spade to land it on, I'll wire-nut stranded to the solid (very carefully), then crimp the stranded and make the connection.

Fortunately much of my career has been in the industrial arena, where stranded wire is by far most common which I highly prefer!

 

[tom baker]

What you have shown is vinyl insulation, I prefer nylon, more expensive but much better especially if you get funnel entry and brazed seams.
Make sure they are listed for solid conductor.

 

[readydave8]

Wire nuts are only for insulation

I do not agree

wire nuts can be called a pressure-type wire connector

 

[kwired]

I do not agree

wire nuts can be called a pressure-type wire connector

I'd say they are a pressure type connector. If you think pre twisting is going to be a solid enough connection without the "wire nut" to hold it together, you will end up stripping much more insulation to be able to twist the connection together well enough then the wire nut will be able to cover. If you don't pre twist, which most connectors don't require you to do, then that spring is definitely maintaining some contact pressure between the conductors within the joint.

 

[Besoeker]

Joints...
The thread seems to have moved on from crimps to wire nuts.
I think the important point in both cases is that they are properly in the first place. The pic in the opening post shows one that wasn't. That is no reason to wholesale condemn them to the trash can.