Electric-Light
Senior Member
This is the kind of stuff I run into. Not my pic, but I have seen hundreds of such failures.
That sure looks like slip joint bite marks. Among reasonable products, fool resistance varies but nothing is fool proof.
are crimps acceptable for joining wires
- Thread starter rszimm
- Start date
- Status
That sure looks like slip joint bite marks. Among reasonable products, fool resistance varies but nothing is fool proof.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
:thumbsup:
The one that has conductor pulled out - sure looks like something was used that was supposed to indent the barrel, but now that you said that the rest of the connections does look like regular marks from a standard pliers.
- Location
- Massachusetts
It does not matter anyway, they 'crimped' the plastic only and not the metal barrel at all.
2008 recall by cpsc
2008 recall by cpsc
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2008/G...l-Wire-Splices-Due-to-Shock-and-Fire-Hazards/
2008 recall by cpsc
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2008/G...l-Wire-Splices-Due-to-Shock-and-Fire-Hazards/
Terminals
Terminals
Use a terminal block something like this
5 Pcs Dual Row 8 Position Screw Terminal Strip 600V 25A + 400V 25A 8 Postions Pre In... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DY73N2C/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_1eCSybBVBVR1V
Brady BMP21-PLUS Handheld Label Printer with Rubber Bumpers, Multi-Line Print, 6 to ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IELD1O4/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_XhCSybT1RZ6B5
If you got stranded wire use a real ratcheting crimper put some forks on
Obviously
Terminals
Use a terminal block something like this
5 Pcs Dual Row 8 Position Screw Terminal Strip 600V 25A + 400V 25A 8 Postions Pre In... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DY73N2C/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_1eCSybBVBVR1V
Brady BMP21-PLUS Handheld Label Printer with Rubber Bumpers, Multi-Line Print, 6 to ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IELD1O4/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_XhCSybT1RZ6B5
If you got stranded wire use a real ratcheting crimper put some forks on
Obviously
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- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
So while off topic, I do have a question. If you have to move it up a foot how are you going to reconnect the cables, it that's what they are or is it all conduit?
If it's NMC you're going to have more issues other than extending the conductors.
Sorry this would only become a concern if the conductors come from the bottom.
If it's NMC you're going to have more issues other than extending the conductors.
Sorry this would only become a concern if the conductors come from the bottom.
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Frank DuVal
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
To continue off topic, if you need adhesive lined heat shrink, but do not have any, slice hot glue sticks into slivers and put inside the tubing before you shrink it. The heat gun will melt the glue just fine.
I have built many an industrial wiring harness using this method.
But, it is not as easy to sliver hot glue sticks as one might think!
I do like the 3M crimp connectors. But the government is low bid, so who knows what we get to use on one of our jobs... We use them up to 600 volts. For HV, we pull off the insulation and solder after crimping. Just so there is not sharp strands sticking out after the crimp. Corona concerns.
I have built many an industrial wiring harness using this method.
But, it is not as easy to sliver hot glue sticks as one might think!
I do like the 3M crimp connectors. But the government is low bid, so who knows what we get to use on one of our jobs... We use them up to 600 volts. For HV, we pull off the insulation and solder after crimping. Just so there is not sharp strands sticking out after the crimp. Corona concerns.
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
ohm
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
I just reviewed all the comments so this is not directed at anyone in particular.
UL (ZMVV) lists this type of wire connectors for both stranded and solid with a proper crimper.
But the only way I would use one on solid is to insert at least 3 passes of the solid into the connector, effectively making it stranded.
The SS spring steel in a wire nut IMO is just to hold the twisted conductors together. Yes the instructions say just insert the straight conductors into the nut and twist until you see the conductors twist.
I've seen this done on #10 solid and in two cases the SS spring attempted to carry the current , overheated and melted the nuts.
Wagos in canned lights are OK if they only supply a single LED light. But, the two contact points in the connector having a very small area and are SS, which is a poor conductor. I would never use them to carry 20A.
To prevent oxidation inside a connector I dribble a little PVC glue into connector after I'm sure the connection is well made up. This probably violates Code but has served me well.
UL (ZMVV) lists this type of wire connectors for both stranded and solid with a proper crimper.
But the only way I would use one on solid is to insert at least 3 passes of the solid into the connector, effectively making it stranded.
The SS spring steel in a wire nut IMO is just to hold the twisted conductors together. Yes the instructions say just insert the straight conductors into the nut and twist until you see the conductors twist.
I've seen this done on #10 solid and in two cases the SS spring attempted to carry the current , overheated and melted the nuts.
Wagos in canned lights are OK if they only supply a single LED light. But, the two contact points in the connector having a very small area and are SS, which is a poor conductor. I would never use them to carry 20A.
To prevent oxidation inside a connector I dribble a little PVC glue into connector after I'm sure the connection is well made up. This probably violates Code but has served me well.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Open Neutral
Senior Member
- Location
- Inside the Beltway
- Occupation
- Engineer
You want it watertight, use a hotmelt glue gun on the Western Union splice, then slide the heat shrink on and use the heat gun, reflowing the glue as it shrinks.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
A proper Western Union splice is soldered, and I use dual wall shrink tube that has hot melt adhesive on the inside.
I also have many different splices, all using various types of connections and shrink tubing, that are watertight.
As a test example, I have solid conductor out of a piece of NM crimped to male and female 1/4" spade connectors, no solder, and covered with my latest discovery of affordable dual wall tubing. It's rock solid and completely waterproof. I have been making waterproof connections for nearly 40 years.
In order to test the shrink tubing, I make the mechanical connections in various ways. Twist, solder, crimp, plug, with and without friction tape, vinyl tape, etc., and then see how much integrity the tubing adds to the splice. The stuff I am getting now is amazing.
Since you brought up hot melt, I will share one of my tricks. If splicing many wires, so that more than one will exit the tubing, adding hot melt where the wires will exit fills in the voids and also adds strain relief. Most people totally ignore strain relief when making up splices.
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
What's your preferred heat shrink product?
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
3:1 dual wall, black. It's not cheap. It's also easier to scorch than the off the rack single wall stuff, so some care must be used when shrinking it down. If all I have is single wall, which is usually thin, I add friction tape and 33+, then shrink over that. It works, but the dual wall does a much better job.
Open Neutral
Senior Member
- Location
- Inside the Beltway
- Occupation
- Engineer
Did not mean to imply it was not soldered...of course it is!
I've not seen dual wall shrink tube with glue; supplier?
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Just Google dual wall heat shrink tubing, there are lots of Internet sources. If you want to spend 9 bucks just to play with some, NAPA car parts usually has some. I don't know how good it is, though.
The stuff I get from Cable Ties and More has great adhesive.
NTE Parts Direct also has good stuff, a bit more expensive, though. Both places add about 40% for shipping.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Most anything rated for direct burial applications is going to be this type.
Raychem brand is what I use most, have had some from 3M as well.
delectric123
Senior Member
- Location
- South Dakota
Let me add my two cents to this subject.
A great heat shrink supplier. https://www.waytekwire.com/products/1381/Tubing/
I've used hundreds of crimped butt splices covered with heat shrink mostly 10 -22 AWG in agricultural buildings that have a corrosive environment. Some of the crimps are on 20A circuits operating heat lamps 24/7 to maximum circuit capacity. They've been operating for years with no problem. It simply makes wire way , breaker panel, etc., wiring look so much better than wire nuts. An improperly tightened wire nut can be just as bad as an improperly crimped butt splice. I'd say most failed butt splices come from improper crimping. I just make the effort to pull test each crimp splice I make.
Now if somebody could tell me where I'll find a ratchet crimper that makes quality crimps on 10-22 AWG insulated crimps, I have yet to find one. I've had the best luck with this.
http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/journeyman-crimping-cutting-tools/journeyman-crimpingcutting-tool
A great heat shrink supplier. https://www.waytekwire.com/products/1381/Tubing/
I've used hundreds of crimped butt splices covered with heat shrink mostly 10 -22 AWG in agricultural buildings that have a corrosive environment. Some of the crimps are on 20A circuits operating heat lamps 24/7 to maximum circuit capacity. They've been operating for years with no problem. It simply makes wire way , breaker panel, etc., wiring look so much better than wire nuts. An improperly tightened wire nut can be just as bad as an improperly crimped butt splice. I'd say most failed butt splices come from improper crimping. I just make the effort to pull test each crimp splice I make.
Now if somebody could tell me where I'll find a ratchet crimper that makes quality crimps on 10-22 AWG insulated crimps, I have yet to find one. I've had the best luck with this.
http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/journeyman-crimping-cutting-tools/journeyman-crimpingcutting-tool
delectric123
Senior Member
- Location
- South Dakota
I forgot to mention the vast majority of those crimp splices is solid wire.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
All I see is single wall. Am I not looking in the right place?
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