are crimps acceptable for joining wires

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K8MHZ said:
This is the kind of stuff I run into. Not my pic, but I have seen hundreds of such failures.

153386740.jpg
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That sure looks like slip joint bite marks. Among reasonable products, fool resistance varies but nothing is fool proof.
 
Besoeker said:
Joints...
The thread seems to have moved on from crimps to wire nuts.
I think the important point in both cases is that they are properly in the first place. The pic in the opening post shows one that wasn't. That is no reason to wholesale condemn them to the trash can.
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:thumbsup:

Electric-Light said:
That sure looks like slip joint bite marks. Among reasonable products, fool resistance varies but nothing is fool proof.
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The one that has conductor pulled out - sure looks like something was used that was supposed to indent the barrel, but now that you said that the rest of the connections does look like regular marks from a standard pliers.
 
kwired said:
:thumbsup:

The one that has conductor pulled out - sure looks like something was used that was supposed to indent the barrel, but now that you said that the rest of the connections does look like regular marks from a standard pliers.
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It does not matter anyway, they 'crimped' the plastic only and not the metal barrel at all.
 
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So while off topic, I do have a question. If you have to move it up a foot how are you going to reconnect the cables, it that's what they are or is it all conduit?

If it's NMC you're going to have more issues other than extending the conductors.

Sorry this would only become a concern if the conductors come from the bottom.
 
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To continue off topic, if you need adhesive lined heat shrink, but do not have any, slice hot glue sticks into slivers and put inside the tubing before you shrink it. The heat gun will melt the glue just fine.

I have built many an industrial wiring harness using this method.

But, it is not as easy to sliver hot glue sticks as one might think!:eek:

I do like the 3M crimp connectors. But the government is low bid, so who knows what we get to use on one of our jobs... We use them up to 600 volts. For HV, we pull off the insulation and solder after crimping. Just so there is not sharp strands sticking out after the crimp. Corona concerns.
 
I just reviewed all the comments so this is not directed at anyone in particular.

UL (ZMVV) lists this type of wire connectors for both stranded and solid with a proper crimper.

But the only way I would use one on solid is to insert at least 3 passes of the solid into the connector, effectively making it stranded.

The SS spring steel in a wire nut IMO is just to hold the twisted conductors together. Yes the instructions say just insert the straight conductors into the nut and twist until you see the conductors twist.
I've seen this done on #10 solid and in two cases the SS spring attempted to carry the current , overheated and melted the nuts.

Wagos in canned lights are OK if they only supply a single LED light. But, the two contact points in the connector having a very small area and are SS, which is a poor conductor. I would never use them to carry 20A.

To prevent oxidation inside a connector I dribble a little PVC glue into connector after I'm sure the connection is well made up. This probably violates Code but has served me well.
 
ohm said:
But the only way I would use one on solid is to insert at least 3 passes of the solid into the connector, effectively making it stranded.
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That would be a violation.

The SS spring steel in a wire nut IMO is just to hold the twisted conductors together. Yes the instructions say just insert the straight conductors into the nut and twist until you see the conductors twist.
I've seen this done on #10 solid and in two cases the SS spring attempted to carry the current , overheated and melted the nuts.

Wagos in canned lights are OK if they only supply a single LED light. But, the two contact points in the connector having a very small area and are SS, which is a poor conductor. I would never use them to carry 20A.

To prevent oxidation inside a connector I dribble a little PVC glue into connector after I'm sure the connection is well made up. This probably violates Code but has served me well.
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Seriously wow ....
 
Open Neutral said:
You want it watertight, use a hotmelt glue gun on the Western Union splice, then slide the heat shrink on and use the heat gun, reflowing the glue as it shrinks.
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A proper Western Union splice is soldered, and I use dual wall shrink tube that has hot melt adhesive on the inside.

I also have many different splices, all using various types of connections and shrink tubing, that are watertight.

As a test example, I have solid conductor out of a piece of NM crimped to male and female 1/4" spade connectors, no solder, and covered with my latest discovery of affordable dual wall tubing. It's rock solid and completely waterproof. I have been making waterproof connections for nearly 40 years.

In order to test the shrink tubing, I make the mechanical connections in various ways. Twist, solder, crimp, plug, with and without friction tape, vinyl tape, etc., and then see how much integrity the tubing adds to the splice. The stuff I am getting now is amazing.

Since you brought up hot melt, I will share one of my tricks. If splicing many wires, so that more than one will exit the tubing, adding hot melt where the wires will exit fills in the voids and also adds strain relief. Most people totally ignore strain relief when making up splices.
 
K8MHZ said:
A proper Western Union splice is soldered, and I use dual wall shrink tube that has hot melt adhesive on the inside.

I also have many different splices, all using various types of connections and shrink tubing, that are watertight.

As a test example, I have solid conductor out of a piece of NM crimped to male and female 1/4" spade connectors, no solder, and covered with my latest discovery of affordable dual wall tubing. It's rock solid and completely waterproof. I have been making waterproof connections for nearly 40 years.

In order to test the shrink tubing, I make the mechanical connections in various ways. Twist, solder, crimp, plug, with and without friction tape, vinyl tape, etc., and then see how much integrity the tubing adds to the splice. The stuff I am getting now is amazing.

Since you brought up hot melt, I will share one of my tricks. If splicing many wires, so that more than one will exit the tubing, adding hot melt where the wires will exit fills in the voids and also adds strain relief. Most people totally ignore strain relief when making up splices.
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What's your preferred heat shrink product?
 
gadfly56 said:
What's your preferred heat shrink product?
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3:1 dual wall, black. It's not cheap. It's also easier to scorch than the off the rack single wall stuff, so some care must be used when shrinking it down. If all I have is single wall, which is usually thin, I add friction tape and 33+, then shrink over that. It works, but the dual wall does a much better job.
 
Open Neutral said:
Did not mean to imply it was not soldered...of course it is!

I've not seen dual wall shrink tube with glue; supplier?
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Just Google dual wall heat shrink tubing, there are lots of Internet sources. If you want to spend 9 bucks just to play with some, NAPA car parts usually has some. I don't know how good it is, though.

The stuff I get from Cable Ties and More has great adhesive.

NTE Parts Direct also has good stuff, a bit more expensive, though. Both places add about 40% for shipping.
 
Open Neutral said:
Did not mean to imply it was not soldered...of course it is!

I've not seen dual wall shrink tube with glue; supplier?
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Most anything rated for direct burial applications is going to be this type.

Raychem brand is what I use most, have had some from 3M as well.
 
Let me add my two cents to this subject.
A great heat shrink supplier. https://www.waytekwire.com/products/1381/Tubing/
I've used hundreds of crimped butt splices covered with heat shrink mostly 10 -22 AWG in agricultural buildings that have a corrosive environment. Some of the crimps are on 20A circuits operating heat lamps 24/7 to maximum circuit capacity. They've been operating for years with no problem. It simply makes wire way , breaker panel, etc., wiring look so much better than wire nuts. An improperly tightened wire nut can be just as bad as an improperly crimped butt splice. I'd say most failed butt splices come from improper crimping. I just make the effort to pull test each crimp splice I make.
Now if somebody could tell me where I'll find a ratchet crimper that makes quality crimps on 10-22 AWG insulated crimps, I have yet to find one. I've had the best luck with this.
http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/journeyman-crimping-cutting-tools/journeyman-crimpingcutting-tool
 
delectric123 said:
Let me add my two cents to this subject.
A great heat shrink supplier. https://www.waytekwire.com/products/1381/Tubing/
I've used hundreds of crimped butt splices covered with heat shrink mostly 10 -22 AWG in agricultural buildings that have a corrosive environment. Some of the crimps are on 20A circuits operating heat lamps 24/7 to maximum circuit capacity. They've been operating for years with no problem. It simply makes wire way , breaker panel, etc., wiring look so much better than wire nuts. An improperly tightened wire nut can be just as bad as an improperly crimped butt splice. I'd say most failed butt splices come from improper crimping. I just make the effort to pull test each crimp splice I make.
Now if somebody could tell me where I'll find a ratchet crimper that makes quality crimps on 10-22 AWG insulated crimps, I have yet to find one. I've had the best luck with this.
http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/journeyman-crimping-cutting-tools/journeyman-crimpingcutting-tool
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention the vast majority of those crimp splices is solid wire.
 
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