commercial receptacle limits

[creighton]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

another opinion. 220.2(A) says 120 volts "unless another voltage is specified". The question specifies 115 volts, therefore the 20 ampere circuit capacity in volt-amperes is 115 X 20 =2300 volt-amperes. 220.3(B)(9) requires that receptacles be calculated at 180 volt-amperes. 2300 divided by 180 = 12.77, so the answer is 12.
Creighton.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

To sorta clearify what we argueing about here would someone please explain to me and others on here why in raising the source voltage, it would be safer to have more recpts. on a circuit and to lower the source voltage you would need to decrease the amount of recpts?

It atually sounds backwards to me does the math even work right?

With a higher voltage you will have a higher potential to have a higher current flow and with more take offs or recpts. you could raise the current draw more easily to a dangerous point.

Ronald

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Creighton,
I agree that if the voltage for the calculation is 115, then only 12 duplex receptacles are permitted, but my question is; who is permitted to specify a nonstandard voltage?
Don

 

[bennie]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Ronald: You too are correct. This is why 13 receptacles can be connected to a 20 amp circuit.

Like I wrote, the answer is correct, the question is wrong.

180 VA = 1.5 amps per outlet. 20 amps divided by 1.5 amps = 13.3333

115 volts; 1.56 per receptacle. 20 amps divided by 1.56 = 12.82. Rounded off is 13.

[ August 02, 2003, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[travis]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

What happened to useing 80 % of the breaker size?

 

[bennie]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Huh?

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Bennie I don't really see how the equation fits the application?

I understand we're sorta refering to supply and demand and a higher voltage will yeild more availible power but really what about safety here?

I always thought that the idea of having a maximum amount of recpts on a circuit was just for the purpose of keeping some one from getting carried away and putting maybe 20 or 30 on a circuit.

Lets face it you could put a whole house full of recpts. on 1, 20 amp. breaker.

Just think of the money we could save and we could even make that a AFCI and save lives to boot.

Ronald

[ August 02, 2003, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Sorry hit the wrong key when was correcting a word, but mize well use this space and not waste it. Where's the one that started all this where's Roger?

This is like starting a fight in a bar and then walking out. :roll:

[ August 02, 2003, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[travis]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

i say 10. you can only use 80% of the 20amp breaker which is 16amps right? 10x1.5=15amps

 

[bennie]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Travis: Correct, but only after 3 hours. When the 3 hours is up remove all but 10.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Travis you can't apply the 80 percent rule to a multiple receptacle circuit.If you did you couldn't have but one recpt.

That rule is to fit the conductor to the breaker.Sorry correction I should have said equipment or load to a breaker.

Bennie thats cute,we must have posted at the same time again.Yes like Bennie said remove 12 after three hour or is that 11?

Ronald

[ August 02, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[roger]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Man O Man! I had no idea this would be so interesting.

Hey Ronald,

. Where's the one that started all this where's Roger?

This is like starting a fight in a bar and then walking out.

We, took a three day road trip and have just walked back in the door.

I appologize to all and will post tomorrow after I have time to read the thread, been on the road for 10 hours and kind of jet lagged right now.

Roger

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Welcome home have a good night.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Sorry about running this in the ground but
in this calculation.

Volts time amperage divided by the allowed NECs VA load rating per receptacle equals the amount of outlets allowed.

or 115x20/180=12.7777 rounded =13
or 120x20/180=13.3333 " =13

Using the rounding factor it would be 13 reguardless.

It is my thinking and I could be wrong on this is that the group of indiviuals or person that thought up this equation didn't even think the voltage would be a contributing factor and was thinking only of the amperage of the circuit?
In other words the nominal voltage would be used.

I do.

Ronald

 

[bennie]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Ronald: This may be a record breaking thread. What is the record, anyone know?

It would have been a shame if the code was written like this;

In other than residential, a total of 13 receptacles permitted on a 20 amp circuit.

Then we would be discussing separately derived systems

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Bennie are you sure we would be talking about a separate derived system?
Don't forget about that dog gone ground making a solid contact between the low and high side of the transformer on the pole.

 

[roger]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Since this has caused such a stir I will ask another question. JUST KIDDING!


Iwire said,

I too will say friendly discussion

and I'm glad it was.

Dereck could see early on the potential for the heat, and tried to inject some diplomacy and a kinder gentler thread.

Roger and Bob, sorry if I came accross as being rude, that was not my intention.

Ryan also sees this.

Oh!!! OOPS!

Joe points out an article that is relevant, and evil at that. Joe nor any of us could have seen how evil. [/quote]Charlie b shows some humanity.

Perhaps we could take up a collection, and send them some of our surplus volts?

This makes Ronald have a spontanious feeling of kindness.

Everyone have a great day

Then Joe is struck with somewhat the same type of feeling.

Bennie, I think you are very smart and full of wisdom in your years

Creighton shows up and agrees with the correct answer, as far as the math is concerned. (sounds like a politician huh.)

After all of that there's a bar fight and Travis brings in something to do with 80 %.

All and All I think this has been very educational.

Roger

 

[bennie]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Very good recap Roger, You can make a hanging appear as a rope testing event

 

[iwire]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Roger that was excellent, better recap then ESPN after the fights.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: commercial receptacle limits

Roger although you are completely different from me, I mean I never try to start an arguement I still like you.

Ronald