Craigslist in Greenville, SC...rant time....

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mdshunk said:
That, right there, is the real reason why men rise in favor of licensing, regardless of what's coming out of their mouth presently.
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Marc you should be careful, you start call people liars they may serve you with papers. :grin:
 
mdshunk said:
That, right there, is the real reason why men rise in favor of licensing, regardless of what's coming out of their mouth presently.
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I don't think so but regardless, in states where licensing is required we can turn unlicensed people in for charging a fee for performing electrcal work. In NC some have even done time for it. :grin:

Roger
 
iwire said:
Marc you should be careful, you start call people liars they may serve you with papers. :grin:
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:grin:

Roger
 
As part of being an effective sales person, when the objections to closing the deal just don't seem to add up, I have sometimes just asked the person straight-on. "What's the real reason for not blah, blah, blah today"? Normally, the salesman already knows the answer, and quite often the prospect will just out and tell you when you ask that. In the case of professional licensing, there are really only 2 real reasons why a man favors it, and a whole host of other reasons that he uses as a smokescreen. The two real reasons are to create another barrier to entry and the other is to drive up wages/contractor profits. Much of the smokescreen we've read in the preceding posts.
 
I have to agree with Marcs points. Although I have my own opinions. Has anyone tried to move to a state were you need a license? Your a master electrician in MD but you are not recognized in CA??? That right there is just a simple example how this licensing is crap. good intentions but no teeth. Just a way to get revenues like nakulak says. Emahler also has good points about national license for the workers. A business, and ETHICS exam should be state regulated.

Back to the OP, I can tell you PA does not have a license. My do it all contractor friend get his electrical stuff inspected. I don't see the need for him to be a master electrician if he gets the inspection.

c2500 you have 2 options.

1) Write you local representatives, Newspapers, and other state officials
2) just deal with it.
 
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Hey have you guys checked on who sits on the licensing boards? My old owner use to not sure if he still does. Tell me that is not a conflict of interest.... FOR ME :)
 
I heard the reason for state wide control of licensing in some cases was local boards set up unrealistic rules to keep "OUTSIDERS" from obtaining a license.

When I have had to activate my business license in remote locations I have run into some arcane rules, no faxes, no emails, must sign the document in front of the person at the desk, no out of state checks, no credit cards, no cash. All possible to overcome, but set up IMO to skate around the state licensing rules to contain the number of contractors in their area.

We always call ahead to minimize issues and get there and rules changed. Had one place that did not issue licenses on Friday.
 
I always thought it strange, that of all the homes I've been to, over all these years, not one homeowner has asked me about my liscence or asked to see it.
 
mdshunk said:
Electrician licensing does not exist in a few states yet, and anarchy in those trades does not exist. People pull a permit, do the work, and have the job inspected; pass or fail.
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That's not really true, there are states where a state license doesn't exist. I can't think of any major city in the US that does not require some sort of license.

Sure electricians can do all the work they want out at possum hollow but when they go to town they need a license. Pennsylvania may not require a license but what about the larger cities?

That's the way it was in most states just a few short years ago. Small communities couldn't afford the cost of having a local license ( that ment anything ) and there was no state license. Once the state absorbs the cost of testing and regulation then it's easy for the small communities to jump on board and require a license. Works out better for the small communities and for the EC's because now they don't have to pay all those fees in dozens of towns.

The only reason that not having a license works in smaller communities is because eveyone tends to know everyone else. The inspectors get an idea of just who is half way qualified. That's not the case in larger metro areas where there are contractors comming in to do work from all over the place. They need some way to establish if the company is legit because they don't have time to inspect every little thing. The license shifts some of the responsibility away from the inspector.
 
frizbeedog said:
I always thought it strange, that of all the homes I've been to, over all these years, not one homeowner has asked me about my liscence or asked to see it.
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Remember the old joke, last week I couldn't spell electrician and this week I are one. :grin: :grin: :grin:

This is just a little humorous frizbee. :smile:
 
growler said:
Remember the old joke, last week I couldn't spell electrician and this week I are one. :grin: :grin: :grin:

This is just a little humorous frizbee. :smile:
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:grin:

I have a hard time hitting the right keys with these paws.

Lisince....

Lysense....

Liecents....

Ketchup....

Catsup....
 
khixxx said:
c2500 you have 2 options.

1) Write you local representatives, Newspapers, and other state officials
2) just deal with it.
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I will take it on in my own way, and I can deal with it. I know there is nothing I can realistically do to change things. I, as well as most everyone here have seen the results of hack..aka non licensed individuals. I am not using licensing as a "barrier to entry". There are plenty of licensed guys out there doing work for nothing. You see the posts here day in and day out about having to cut prices or just staying home. There is enough legitimate competition with in the licensed arena to keep everyone complaining about be undercut on a job. At least though with that it is more of a level playing field.

Do I care about having legitimate licensed competitors? NO!

Do I care about unlicensed indivduals practicing a trade that when done wrong easily results in Death? Yes!

Are there good unlicensed people out there? Probably. But if they were that good they would have a license. Can those people pull permits and have inspections? Not where I live. No state license means no business license means no permits means no inspections.

c2500
 
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iwire said:
What you see as smoke screen others see as legitimate reasons, you do not personally hold the key to the truth.
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Be that as it may, most of the smokescreen is unfounded and pure conjecture. My opinions of what I believe are true are based on much reading on the topic, my general Libertarian bent, and from the very few scholarly studies on the matter. This is one of the topics I've promised myself that I will condense into one paper on the topic for easier understanding of why I take this position. Really, there's only three topics that I'm passionate about related to our trade. They can be summarized simply as "Licensing is unnecessary", "Every electrician should know the value of the megohm meter", and "Good enough is normally good enough".
 
brian john said:
I heard the reason for state wide control of licensing in some cases was local boards set up unrealistic rules to keep "OUTSIDERS" from obtaining a license.

When I have had to activate my business license in remote locations I have run into some arcane rules, no faxes, no emails, must sign the document in front of the person at the desk, no out of state checks, no credit cards, no cash. All possible to overcome, but set up IMO to skate around the state licensing rules to contain the number of contractors in their area.

We always call ahead to minimize issues and get there and rules changed. Had one place that did not issue licenses on Friday.
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Brian,

I have a friend that is an HVAC contractor. He wanted to do some work in North Carolina. The guy on the phone told him he could fill the forms out but it would be a very long time before he got a response because they did not need any out of state contractors. My friend did not pursue the license because the job would have long since been completed. Also, SC and NC have reciprocity with each other.

c2500
 
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frizbeedog said:
:grin:

I have a hard time hitting the right keys with these paws.
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Common problem among we k-9's. You may want to see a Vet about that. A licensed Vet. A dog can't be to carefull. Wouldn't want to end up neutered by mistake. :grin: :grin:
 
Marc,

One of the things I feel you keep alluding to is that work will be inspected and that if it is correct all is well. How do you expect this to be the case? Where I am it is not possible to have the work inpected without having a license (other than owner/builder). Do you really think that without licensing there would be less instances of death and fire due to poor workmanship? We do not live in Utopia. We also do not live in the wild west anymore.

People often times need to be protected from their own ignorance.

Do you want an unlicensed pesticide person with no guidance spraying dangerous chemicals at your home. Better yet, would you personally hire one of these guys off Craigslist and let him do electrical work for you (without you stepping in to correct his mistakes)? I seriously doubt it.

c2500
 
I'm not a Libertarian but that's an interesting philosophy. I think lisencing is in place to protect the public more that it is to limit the playing field. In a perfect world I guess consumers wouldn't need protection from unscrupulous contractors who would sue for an injury or cut out a support beam to run a wire. While lisencing doesn't eliminate that factor it does create a base that is required to enter the game, like workmans comp and liability insurance. Something my side job homey's don't have to pay for.
 
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