Craigslist in Greenville, SC...rant time....

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AndyS said:
It probably shouldn't.
But, the people who live in that State voted for Representatives who drafted and passed a law making it illegal. Evidently it's what the majority of people who live there want, or it wouldn't exist.
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That is patently false. Elected representitives don't necessarily represent the masses. Nor do legislators legislate by popular demand.

It doesn't have to make sense, it is what it is, and people who don't like it are free to try and convince other people that the law should be changed, or repealed altogether.
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The problem with your solution for those who don't like the law is that those who don't benefit from the law are not part of an organized group, and those who benefit most from the law are.

Or they could move to another State, or they could break the law, but if they choose that route, they shouldn't really whine about it if and when they get caught since there were other choices.
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emahler said:
but none of that negates the fact that a license is simply designed to hold someone accountable for their actions...it's a shame that too many states and municipalities don't understand this....
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If this were true, could you or anyone point out any instance where any licensed electrical contractor ever paid a fine, or spent a minute in jail for defective work that caused property damage or death which was installed under his license?
 
iwire said:
What you see as smoke screen others see as legitimate reasons, you do not personally hold the key to the truth.
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If Marc's posession of every test instrument available on the planet is any indication, what makes you so sure he doesn't posess all of lifes necessary keys as well? :grin:
 
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iwire said:
What you see as smoke screen others see as legitimate reasons, you do not personally hold the key to the truth.
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LawnGuyLandSparky said:
If Marc's posession of every test instrument available on the planet is any indication, what makes you so sure he doesn't posess all of lifes necessary keys as well? :grin:
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In mathematical proofs, some steps are skipped, as they are considered well known and they're called a "given". In junior high school, Mrs. Bessie Brown, our geometry teacher wouldn't let us put "given" in any of our proofs, so we had to write out each reason for each step. No one person holding the keys to the truth is a "given" in anything any person ever reads. Bob will have to forgive me if I ever accidentally call him Mrs. Brown.
 
mdshunk said:
In mathematical proofs, some steps are skipped, as they are considered well known and they're called a "given". In junior high school, Mrs. Bessie Brown, our geometry teacher wouldn't let us put "given" in any of our proofs, so we had to write out each reason for each step. No one person holding the keys to the truth is a "given" in anything any person ever reads. Bob will have to forgive me if I ever accidentally call him Mrs. Brown.
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Nice smokescreen obscuring the main point. :wink:
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
If this were true, could you or anyone point out any instance where any licensed electrical contractor ever paid a fine, or spent a minute in jail for defective work that caused property damage or death which was installed under his license?
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Here are some fines and disciplinary actions taken before property damage occurred, see page 13 and case number 2007-187 for not supervising employees disabling thermal protection in a recessed can for instance.

Roger
 
iwire said:
Nice smokescreen obscuring the main point. :wink:
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No, not at all. I said I agreed with you, but said that it was also a given. I just put it in a story. Stories, to me, are highly effective means of communication. Dan Holohan, a technical writer, uses this form of communication in most of his books and I find his work quite enjoyable to read. In his book "How to Teach Technicians Without Putting Them to Sleep", he relates the effectiveness of putting information in the form of a story. I'm not that good at it, but he sure is.
 
I understand and agree with the moderate Libertarian view point. If my state did not have licencing, I suppose I would not care much for the intrusion. When Oklahoma licensing was just city by city, there were complaints of corruption by the Haj from newer applicants wanting licences in the smaller cities. State licensing was supposed to rectify that.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
If this were true, could you or anyone point out any instance where any licensed electrical contractor ever paid a fine, or spent a minute in jail for defective work that caused property damage or death which was installed under his license?
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With respects to pages 6 & 7, go look at www.NCbeec.org read the Jan 2008 newsletter.
Page 4 kinda interesting, page 6 through 24
RECENT DISCIPLINARY ACTION TAKEN BY THE BOARD
all in 28 pages.

You can be sent to jail here for practicing engineering with-out a license here too, :D. Granted its a different board but they got some bite too.

I thought your where talking about 6th or 7th here. op well ...
 
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I am pretty new to this forum and have only been doing electrical work for the last 5 years and have not got my journymans card yet, but I would think that every one on this board would want it required to have to hold a lisence and take out a permit to do electrical work. It would mean more work for all of us, and make trouble shoot problems in houses and business alot easier. I do think people need to be resonsible for the work they do. Their should be electrical malpractice!
 
rustyryan34 said:
....but I would think that every one on this board would want it required to have to hold a lisence ...
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Not everyone, which is why I wanted to make my position well-known. Your gut feeling is the easiest opinion to hold. I mostly just wanted to get a few gears turning, not necessarily change any minds.
 
ike5547 said:
Pages 6 & 7

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/Newsletters/ContractorNewsletter2006Winter.pdf

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/GeneralInformation/Newsroom/MostWanted/
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In the first link, every contractor is or was licensed and is charged only with an administrative violation involving licensing itself. These are typically dismissed or charges/fines reduced with "administrative oversight" cited as the reason for the violation.

In the second link, you are only showing a site that warns about unlicensed individuals.

Neither site is showing me anything about a licensed contractor who is spending hard time in jail or paid a very hefty fine or was disbarred from the trade due to causing a fire, or propertry damage, or death.
 
roger said:
Here are some fines and disciplinary actions taken before property damage occurred, see page 13 and case number 2007-187 for not supervising employees disabling thermal protection in a recessed can for instance.

Roger
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The man pays a $500.00 fine for the violation, keeps his license and can still file for work as long as he doesn't violate the probation agreement.

This isn't protecting consumers.

LICENSE NUMBER: 4149-U
VIOLATION(S): Violation of 87-47 (a1) (7) and
Board Rule .0908 (a) (b) (c) in that the firm:
(8) Disabled a thermal cut out safety device in a
recessed lighting fixture in a bathroom
located at 112 Hillsboro Drive, Bern Bern,
NC;
(9) Failed to properly supervise work carried out
by employees; and
(10) Engaged in malpractice in the use of the
license.
BOARD ACTION: The Board, acting through its
staff, proposed a reprimand, a five hundred dollar
($500.00) civil penalty and twelve (12) months
probation with suspension of license and the right to
serve as a listed qualified individual on any license
issued by the Board in the event of failure to
comply with the following conditions:
 
mdshunk said:
Not everyone, which is why I wanted to make my position well-known. Your gut feeling is the easiest opinion to hold. I mostly just wanted to get a few gears turning, not necessarily change any minds.
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So you encourage me to not finish school and take my journymans test, and just load up my trunk and do all the work on the side I can wheather I know what I am doing or not?
 
rustyryan34 said:
So you encourage me to not finish school and take my journymans test, and just load up my trunk and do all the work on the side I can wheather I know what I am doing or not?
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No, havn't said that at all. You did. You need to finish school; you owe that to yourself. If you want to load up your trunk and do side work, that's up to you, but that is a different matter altogether. If you are required to get a j-man license in your state, that's what you need to do also. The question I leave you with is this. Why should it require special permission from the government (a license) in order for you to earn a living? Asking these sorts of questions does not in any way imply that you should take any action by any means on your part.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
In the first link, every contractor is or was licensed and is charged only with an administrative violation involving licensing itself.

These are typically dismissed or charges/fines reduced with "administrative oversight" cited as the reason for the violation.
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Wrong. All of the licenses on that list have been revoked. Some of the people on that list end up in jail. For example, some revocations are marked with the code number 7123 (Conviction of a felony in connection with construction activities)
 
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iwire said:
I also remember one about an EC doing jail time for a child's death and ungrounded outlet supplying some appliance.
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I think it was a baseboard heater.

Roger
 
ike5547 said:
Wrong. All of the licenses on that list have been revoked. Some of the people on that list end up in jail. For example, some revocations are marked with the code number 7123 (Conviction of a felony in connection with construction activities)
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Also, code #7110 (Willful disregard and violation of building laws) is the cause for many revocations.
 
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