does NEC require you to install electrical power in detached garage?

[PaulMmn]

I've never dealt with it either, but, it would be my guess it would be best to have your conduit in place before the volcano erupted. and, probably not PVC if you actually wanted to use it.

JAP>

Probably have to pull new wires after the volcano had its say...

 

[jap]

Probably have to pull new wires after the volcano had its say...

We're not pulling wires yet remember?

If we did we'd have to install a receptacle outlet.

JAP>

 

[ron v]

That enhanced comment is great... I am going to show that to the building dept. They are currently using the 2017 NEC so not sure if they will accept it. But it does clearly say.... " ...if it is not supplied with electicity." So that shows you are not required to have electricity in a detached garage.


Since many of you probably have more experience with building depts than me.. I'm wondering, how do you challege them when they are misinterpreting the code? I'm mean what can I do if the guy says, " well this is how we read it.. you need to install electricity."

 

[rc/retired]

That enhanced comment is great... I am going to show that to the building dept. They are currently using the 2017 NEC so not sure if they will accept it. But it does clearly say.... " ...if it is not supplied with electicity." So that shows you are not required to have electricity in a detached garage.


Since many of you probably have more experience with building depts than me.. I'm wondering, how do you challege them when they are misinterpreting the code? I'm mean what can I do if the guy says, " well this is how we read it.. you need to install electricity."

I don't know, man. Tell them they can have my sister-in-law!
You're stuck if they don't listen to reason.
Print and show them this thread. Good luck!

Ron

 

[ron v]

Being I've never had to deal with lava rock, how hard is it to cut through? What kind of equipment is needed?

To give you an idea,,, when people put fence posts in they need to rent a jack hammer to make the holes.
There are two types of lava,, one is very hard and the other fairly soft, you never knowwhat kind you will deal with and it can be a mix ina small area.

When people buy a raw lot,, the hire a guy with a CAT D9 that has a giant rock breaking claw on it. They call it ripping a lot. The D9 just goes back and forth over the area and rips the lava into gravel. You end up with a flat lot that is black lava gravel...

here is a video of D9 ripping a lot,

 

[Joethemechanic]

To give you an idea,,, when people put fence posts in they need to rent a jack hammer to make the holes.
There are two types of lava,, one is very hard and the other fairly soft, you never knowwhat kind you will deal with and it can be a mix ina small area.

When people buy a raw lot,, the hire a guy with a CAT D9 that has a giant rock breaking claw on it. They call it ripping a lot. The D9 just goes back and forth over the area and rips the lava into gravel. You end up with a flat lot that is black lava gravel...

here is a video of D9 ripping a lot,

Yeah we do a lot of that around here to get to the anthracite. The only lava rock I've ever seen in person was some somebody brought back from a vacation. It looked porous and didn't strike me as being really hard. I didn't know there was another type

 

[Joe.B]

That enhanced comment is great... I am going to show that to the building dept. They are currently using the 2017 NEC so not sure if they will accept it. But it does clearly say.... " ...if it is not supplied with electicity." So that shows you are not required to have electricity in a detached garage.


Since many of you probably have more experience with building depts than me.. I'm wondering, how do you challege them when they are misinterpreting the code? I'm mean what can I do if the guy says, " well this is how we read it.. you need to install electricity."

This is a loaded question and this may not really the best place to get advice, everybody has vastly different experiences with building departments, and opinions of them. Some of us work for building departments. In reality every building department is different, and the level of customer service you receive will depend greatly on the conditions staff work under. Are they understaffed and/or over worked? Are they under paid? Where I work this would be a very casual conversation at the front counter and we'd work it out. At the next city over you might not get the time of day.

My advice is to keep a kind and professional attitude, and hope you get the same. There's a really good chance that if you "challenge" them they will dig they're heels in, which is unfortunate. But if you are simply asking for customer service and they're not providing it, then you might have to go up the food chain.

The building department acts as the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" and they're charged with interpreting the codes. Doesn't mean they're going to interpret it right, but it is their call. I agree with others here that they're interpreting it wrong, but none of our opinions matter. I would suggest accepting their interpretation and asking them what kind of accommodations they might be willing to accept. For example, would they be willing to permit your detached garage with a note on the plans "electrical to be a deferred submittal". We often see deferred submittals for things like PV, trusses, or sprinklers. This should be a normal thing to them and they may go for it, especially if you're nice to them.

There may be local zoning codes, or other local policies in play and they might be in a spot where they feel like they "can't" approve this. Possibly by including this note on the plans will satisfy their needs, and you get to build your garage. Chances are they will not come back looking for the electrical, they'll forget all about it and move on to bigger issues.

 

[gadfly56]

That enhanced comment is great... I am going to show that to the building dept. They are currently using the 2017 NEC so not sure if they will accept it. But it does clearly say.... " ...if it is not supplied with electicity." So that shows you are not required to have electricity in a detached garage.


Since many of you probably have more experience with building depts than me.. I'm wondering, how do you challege them when they are misinterpreting the code? I'm mean what can I do if the guy says, " well this is how we read it.. you need to install electricity."

In NJ you have two options. You can appeal to the city or town council, because they hear all the appeals. They are likely to side with the official out of ignorance. You can also contact the DCA to have them offer an opinion. Do you have a state-wide department that handles construction?

 

[ron v]

That is from the online comments in the NEC but they are not NEC rules, just an interpretation as I hear it. If you have the NEC Link you will see something like this. I expanded the enhance content



View attachment 2566673

What online link are you using? I found a free access copy of the NEC on the NFPA website ( national fire protect association), but the online copy of the code does nothave an enhanced content.

 

[ron v]

This is a loaded question and this may not really the best place to get advice, everybody has vastly different experiences with building departments, and opinions of them. Some of us work for building departments. In reality every building department is different, and the level of customer service you receive will depend greatly on the conditions staff work under. Are they understaffed and/or over worked? Are they under paid? Where I work this would be a very casual conversation at the front counter and we'd work it out. At the next city over you might not get the time of day.

My advice is to keep a kind and professional attitude, and hope you get the same. There's a really good chance that if you "challenge" them they will dig they're heels in, which is unfortunate. But if you are simply asking for customer service and they're not providing it, then you might have to go up the food chain.

The building department acts as the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" and they're charged with interpreting the codes. Doesn't mean they're going to interpret it right, but it is their call. I agree with others here that they're interpreting it wrong, but none of our opinions matter. I would suggest accepting their interpretation and asking them what kind of accommodations they might be willing to accept. For example, would they be willing to permit your detached garage with a note on the plans "electrical to be a deferred submittal". We often see deferred submittals for things like PV, trusses, or sprinklers. This should be a normal thing to them and they may go for it, especially if you're nice to them.

There may be local zoning codes, or other local policies in play and they might be in a spot where they feel like they "can't" approve this. Possibly by including this note on the plans will satisfy their needs, and you get to build your garage. Chances are they will not come back looking for the electrical, they'll forget all about it and move on to bigger issues.

Thanks for the advice. I will try your approach, i agree that in most istuations if you are not confrontation but more of jsut asking questions, they might be more receptive... I only talked to someone on the phone, so I think inperson and showing them the enhanced code above might work.

 

[qcroanoke]

Thanks for the advice. I will try your approach, i agree that in most istuations if you are not confrontation but more of jsut asking questions, they might be more receptive... I only talked to someone on the phone, so I think inperson and showing them the enhanced code above might work.

The enhanced code may work but as Dennis said it is NOT the actual code. It's someone's opinion. It's like Fine Print Notes. They are not enforceable.
To me that section needs a rewrite to make it clear power is not required but if you put power there an outlet is required. Which makes no sense either. Why would you put power there but no receptacles............

 

[suemarkp]

If you run power to a garage, you also need a lighting outlet per 210.70(A)(2). It uses that same language of "detached garages with electric power".

So there are multiple places in the code you can point to that uses this garage with electric power clause.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What online link are you using? I found a free access copy of the NEC on the NFPA website ( national fire protect association), but the online copy of the code does nothave an enhanced content.

I pay $100 a year for access to all NFPA documents. It is called NFPA Link. The NEC goes back to the 2011 thru the 2023. The 2020 is when they started using the enhanced content which is an explanation of the section. Not all section will have the enhanced view.

 

[ron v]

I pay $100 a year for access to all NFPA documents. It is called NFPA Link. The NEC goes back to the 2011 thru the 2023. The 2020 is when they started using the enhanced content which is an explanation of the section. Not all section will have the enhanced view.

View attachment 2566713

I see now, you only get a copy to that actual code without signing up for the NFPA link..
However it says I can try the link for free for 2 weeks, so I will try that and then print it out...

 

[Fred B]

I see now, you only get a copy to that actual code without signing up for the NFPA link..
However it says I can try the link for free for 2 weeks, so I will try that and then print it out...

I found the price of Link is comparable to buying the book for every three yr cycle but gives me full access to all the various codes, current and past, as well as the enhanced commentary and you can select code cycle to be available off line on your device. Just saying.

 

[ron v]

Probably have to pull new wires after the volcano had its say...

If the volcano has it's say, you will not have a house or garage....so the wiring will not matter. The unlucky people who had houses near the 2018 eruption now have their entire property covered in 20 ft of more of lava. A few moved back and started over, but they just build on top of the fresh lava. The last eruption in my area was 800 years ago, so I good.....

 

[LarryFine]

The unlucky people who had houses near the 2018 eruption now have their entire property covered in 20 ft of more of lava. A few moved back and started over, but they just build on top of the fresh lava.

Did they have to drill down to the old level for water, sewer, gas, etc?

 

[ron v]

Did they have to drill down to the old level for water, sewer, gas, etc?

Most of the Big Island is rural area. ( except for the towns of Kona and Hilo). My property is about 15 minutes outside of Hilo and is techaniclly in a ag land subdivision. So there are no sewers or county supplied water. Everyone has water catchment systems and septic tanks( nice becasue no water/sewer bill every month) Average rainfall in Hilo area is 170 in/yr , so no problem having enough water. If you want gas, then it is a propane tank. For electric, they have to install all new poles and lines, which you can imagine takes awhile. Many people just go off grid with solar. Depending on were your property is, the county may decide not to run electric there again.. in 2018 the fissures open up in the middle of a popular subdivision with a lot of houses. The way the lava flows, there were place where a house is total covered and the neighbor was not touched. It is kind of like when a wild fire comes through some houses survive when others around them are gone.

you can go to google, type in "leilani estates lava flow" and then select images to see a lot of photos

example

 

[wwhitney]

septic tanks . . .lava

How can septic tanks possibly function with lava? Do you have to bring in a large volume of selected fill with the correct perk rate and build up the entire dispersal field?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Start here as an example.
Find a list of board members and when they meet. Then move up the food chain.
Get on the agenda.
You will notice the board is usually made up of other professionals and public for the why you require that.