does NEC require you to install electrical power in detached garage?

[jim dungar]

How can septic tanks possibly function with lava? Do you have to bring in a large volume of selected fill with the correct perk rate and build up the entire dispersal field?

Cheers, Wayne

A tank could hold it all in. You are describing a leachate field.

 

[wwhitney]

A tank could hold it all in. You are describing a leachate field.

My understanding of the terminology is that if it's a pit with a leachate field for overflow, it's called a septic tank. If it's a pit with an open bottom, then it's a cesspit or cesspool. If it's a sealed pit or tank, not sure what that's called, but then you'd be relying on pumping it out when it is full, like on an RV.

Maybe there's some regional variation in terminology.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[PaulMmn]

If the volcano has it's say, you will not have a house or garage....so the wiring will not matter. The unlucky people who had houses near the 2018 eruption now have their entire property covered in 20 ft of more of lava. A few moved back and started over, but they just build on top of the fresh lava. The last eruption in my area was 800 years ago, so I good.....

800 years ago.... aren't you afraid you're about due? (;

 

[PaulMmn]

Most of the Big Island is rural area. ( except for the towns of Kona and Hilo). My property is about 15 minutes outside of Hilo and is techaniclly in a ag land subdivision. So there are no sewers or county supplied water. Everyone has water catchment systems and septic tanks( nice becasue no water/sewer bill every month) Average rainfall in Hilo area is 170 in/yr , so no problem having enough water. If you want gas, then it is a propane tank. For electric, they have to install all new poles and lines, which you can imagine takes awhile. Many people just go off grid with solar. Depending on were your property is, the county may decide not to run electric there again.. in 2018 the fissures open up in the middle of a popular subdivision with a lot of houses. The way the lava flows, there were place where a house is total covered and the neighbor was not touched. It is kind of like when a wild fire comes through some houses survive when others around them are gone.

you can go to google, type in "leilani estates lava flow" and then select images to see a lot of photos

example
View attachment 2566738

Wasn't that the development that was in a swale running downhill from the volcano-- effectively funneling lava through the houses??

 

[drcampbell]

I've never dealt with [lava rock] either, but, it would be my guess it would be best to have your conduit in place before the volcano erupted. and, probably not PVC if you actually wanted to use it.

Steel won't fare much better than PVC. And tungsten-titanium-alloy conduit is expensive, difficult to source, and murder on saw blades.

 

[retirede]

My understanding of the terminology is that if it's a pit with a leachate field for overflow, it's called a septic tank. If it's a pit with an open bottom, then it's a cesspit or cesspool. If it's a sealed pit or tank, not sure what that's called, but then you'd be relying on pumping it out when it is full, like on an RV.

Maybe there's some regional variation in terminology.

Cheers, Wayne

A septic tank is just a tank. A leachate field is just one way to handle the outflow. Mine has a filtration system on the discharge.

 

[ron v]

Wasn't that the development that was in a swale running downhill from the volcano-- effectively funneling lava through the houses??

no,,, new fissures opened up,, I think it ended up being 9 of them... it is the luck of the draw if one opens in your neighborhood and starts pouring lava out. There was a lot of lava pumped out in that 2018 eruption, so much it flowed all the way to ocean and actually expanded the size of the island...

I saw one viedo of a crack in the earth literally opened up right under the middle of someone's house,, just like in a movie.

 

[ron v]

800 years ago.... aren't you afraid you're about due? (;

there are 9 Lava zones on the Big Island. The insurance companies will determine your risk by what lava zone you are in.
I am in 3. for 1, and 2 you basically can not get insurance , that is why land is cheap in those areas. The 2018 eruption was in Lava Zone 2..

Kīlauea has been studied and mapped extensively for years. The risk of an eruption is in the areas called rift zones. My area is not in a rift zone.
So as Oppenhiemer said,, " the risk is almost zero..." LOL

 

[ron v]

A septic tank is just a tank. A leachate field is just one way to handle the outflow. Mine has a filtration system on the discharge.

the Big Island has a lot of old cesspools. A cesspool is just a hole with the bottom open. They found that the ocean is getting contaminated from all the old cesspools because lava rock is gnerally porus. You can't dig a well, because it would get contaminated from your neighboors cesspools. So several years ago they outlawed any new cesspools and they passed a law that all cesspools need to be convert to septic systems before 2040.

I have done a little research on septic systems. There are several types. Not all need a leach field. But that would be a topic for the pluming forums...LOL

 

[ron v]

back to the original topic..
The building supply company I worked with to get the plans drawn and stmaped by an architect called and they agreed I do not need to run electric to the building. She thinks they might have said I do because the plans say there will be an automatic garage door opener. She said she will call the building dept and see if she can work it out. If not, I will go in person next week and talk t them.

I was thinking, even if the code intention was that you must have electrci power in a detached building, why would it force you to run power on a branch circuit. You could install solar power. and what about all the off grid properties?

 

[Joethemechanic]

there are 9 Lava zones on the Big Island. The insurance companies will determine your risk by what lava zone you are in.
I am in 3. for 1, and 2 you basically can not get insurance , that is why land is cheap in those areas. The 2018 eruption was in Lava Zone 2..

Kīlauea has been studied and mapped extensively for years. The risk of an eruption is in the areas called rift zones. My area is not in a rift zone.
So as Oppenhiemer said,, " the risk is almost zero..." LOL

Can't you just throw a virgin in the volcano or something?

 

[ramsy]

You could install solar power. and what about all the off grid properties?

Are those easier than 1 overhead branch circuit on messenger wire ?

 

[PaulMmn]

Can't you just throw a virgin in the volcano or something?

Does it have to be a virgin? If not, I have some suggestions.... {:

 

[Joethemechanic]

Does it have to be a virgin? If not, I have some suggestions...

???????????????

 

[ron v]

Can't you just throw a virgin in the volcano or something?

maybe we can throw the buidling dept in....

 

[ron v]

Are those easier than 1 overhead branch circuit on messenger wire ?

well the garage is 125 ft from the panel on tthe house, would have to put some poles in to support it and of coarse you need a permit and electican to do that. so can I do that, yes, but I don't want to.. that is the point. I don't think the code is designd to force you to installl electric in a buidling if you don't wnat to.

And I was thinking exactly about off grid houses.. There are a lot on The Big Island. that will be another point I bring up to the buidlng dept, how can they be built with out electricity if you say the code say they have to have it.

 

[Joethemechanic]

well the garage is 125 ft from the panel on tthe house, would have to put some poles in to support it and of coarse you need a permit and electican to do that. so can I do that, yes, but I don't want to.. that is the point. I don't think the code is designd to force you to installl electric in a buidling if you don't wnat to.

And I was thinking exactly about off grid houses.. There are a lot on The Big Island. that will be another point I bring up to the buidlng dept, how can they be built with out electricity if you say the code say they have to have it.

Do the off grid people live without electricity? Or are they generating their own?

 

[ramsy]

125 ft from the panel on the house, would have to put some poles in to support it and of coarse you need a permit and electican to do that.

125ft overhead spans are not uncommon, but utility & AHJ must approve plan review & construction. Same for off-grid solar array touching the building, if not listed as an assembly.

Listed portable assemblies may include:
* Solar landscape / security lights
* Portable solar battery packs with convenience outlet

And I was thinking exactly about off grid houses.. There are a lot on The Big Island.

Without permits off-grid arrays if unlisted assemblies are owner-installed construction defects, not insurable, and if not abated before property sales, holding up buyer's mortgage & title insurance is the best possible outcome.

 

[ron v]

125ft overhead spans are not uncommon, but utility & AHJ must approve plan review & construction. Same for off-grid solar array touching the building, if not listed as an assembly.

Listed portable assemblies may include:
* Solar landscape / security lights
* Portable solar battery packs with convenience outlet

Without permits off-grid arrays if unlisted assemblies are owner-installed construction defects, not insurable, and if not abated before property sales, holding up buyer's mortgage & title insurance is the best possible outcome.

* Portable solar battery packs with convenience outlet

These are fast replacing gas powered generators. I have seen several off grid people power their tools all day long with one of these...
one popular brand

Solar Panels & Solar Generators

www.earthtechproducts.com

When we were shopping for a hosue in Hawaii,, every property we looked at had un-permited work. The big way it hurts you, say the house has an unpermited addition of 500sq ft,, well you can not include that as the total area of the house when getting a mortage, becasue size of house will not match what the county has on reecord. So value will be lower. But does not stop anyone from buying in a hot market. House we bought a few years ago had obvilous unpermited electrical work. I know the previous owner hired a handyman to do all the fixup work... There was a wire running up the side of the house and into an attic vent to a new ceiling fans. The appraiser who inspected the hosue never said a word about that or the other electric and plunbing code violatiions I saw. All she cared about was that, " the roof looks really old" because some shingles were missing....

 

[ramsy]

say the house has an unpermited addition of 500sq ft,, well you can not include that as the total area of the house when getting a mortage, becasue size of house will not match what the county has on reecord

Yes, I also heard that before.

Also heard buyers mortgage won't close if title insurance chokes on open permits found with municipal records.

My state requires defects disclosed by transfer on disclosure statements (TDS), and allows insurance non-renewal & cancellation for increased hazards, so after 50 years of paying premiums claims can be denied for hazardous defects.