Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity

[K8MHZ]

I think the OP has left out the effects of Lenz's Law and is failing to realize that the Lenz Effect will slow the magnets down.

 

[junkhound]

Hey, now, that there OP did not every mentions any optics in his presentation,

so what is all this blather about them there lenses? :lol:

Oh, as fer experiments, drop a stack of round NeFeB magnets down a sch 80 copper pipe and wait, and wait, and wait fer it to drop thru, eh?
An ANTI GRAVITS invention, huh.

 

[K8MHZ]

Hey, now, that there OP did not every mentions any optics in his presentation,

so what is all this blather about them there lenses? :lol:

Oh, as fer experiments, drop a stack of round NeFeB magnets down a sch 80 copper pipe and wait, and wait, and wait fer it to drop thru, eh?
An ANTI GRAVITS invention, huh.

It works with aluminum tubing, too. And neodymium magnets.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

This machine is fulfilling all the requirements of getting more output than input and if you say that all maths is irrelevant then all physics laws are irrelevant. there are hundreds of videos of linear generators working with the help of wave energy and tidal energy and if you compare this device with them then you will find that this device must work.I'm not ruling out any physics laws but physics laws are also proving that it will work definitely. The higher the magnetic strength and the higher the turns of a coils then the higher the output.

Not even being close to the same thing. If you would look at the total energy in the wave and compare it to the generator output energy you will find that the output energy is much less than the input energy.

As far as the math, this is your theory and your job to prove it works.

 

[junkhound]

It works with aluminum tubing, too. And neodymium magnets.

and if you try it with emt or rigid steel conduit, you need a hyd press to get the magnets out,,,,,,, :roll:

 

[K8MHZ]

and if you try it with emt or rigid steel conduit, you need a hyd press to get the magnets out,,,,,,, :roll:

Watch your fingers, too!!!

 

[vikram_gupta11]

Not even being close to the same thing. If you would look at the total energy in the wave and compare it to the generator output energy you will find that the output energy is much less than the input energy.

As far as the math, this is your theory and your job to prove it works.

Sir,please focus on the input force point and compare with conventional linear generator and this one device.In this device the input energy will be not wasted due to balance of gravity while in conventional linear generator input energy will be wasted to lift up the weight of magnets. There is a need of only very small amount of input energy in this device.

 

[GoldDigger]

Sir,please focus on the input force point and compare with conventional linear generator and this one device.In this device the input energy will be not wasted due to balance of gravity while in conventional linear generator input energy will be wasted to lift up the weight of magnets. There is a need of only very small amount of input energy in this device.

Dear Vikram,
Instead I suggest that you focus on what will be providing the force to move the magnets through the coils against the resistance of a magnetic force. If you cannot determine where that energy is coming from you have not properly considered all of the input energy which will be producing the electrical output.

If you count only some of the required energy, then no matter how accurate your math describes the sources you do consider, it still does not properly describe the entire "generator".

 

[vikram_gupta11]

Dear Vikram,
Instead I suggest that you focus on what will be providing the force to move the magnets through the coils against the resistance of a magnetic force. If you cannot determine where that energy is coming from you have not properly considered all of the input energy which will be producing the electrical output.

If you count only some of the required energy, then no matter how accurate your math describes the sources you do consider, it still does not properly describe the entire "generator".

Dear sir, The input energy source is a 3 volt TOY motor which will be attached with this balance system as per diagram . This balance system will move in linear direction with the help of this 3 volt toy motor so the source of input energy is 3 volt toy motor.

 

[GoldDigger]

Dear sir, The input energy source is a 3 volt TOY motor which will be attached with this balance system as per diagram . This balance system will move in linear direction with the help of this 3 volt toy motor so the source of input energy is 3 volt toy motor.

And how much energy must the toy 3V motor provide to move the magnets against the magnetic force of the coils?
If you calculate exactly how much energy the toy 3V motor must provide, you will find that it is slightly larger than the power produced by the coils.

Saying that you will use a toy 3V motor and that it will require negligible energy since it is a small motor does not make that small motor able to move the balance system.
If you do not make a closed circuit through the coils then a small motor can indeed move the balance system. But once you allow current to flow through the coils into a load to extract energy you will raise the energy that must be supplied by the 3V motor by the same amount and your system will fail.

For what I hope is the last time:
The current flowing through the coils exerts a force on the magnets which makes them hard to move. All of the energy required to move them against this force must come from the 3V motor. So the output power is limited by the power supplied to the 3V motor.
Since the 3V motor is not 100% efficient (nor are the power producing coils) the energy you get out will be less than the energy you put in.

 

[winnie]

Mr. Gupta,

In theory, the system that you describe can be made to oscillate in a see-saw fashion with very little input of power, until you connect an output load to the generator coils.

There are various loss terms which cannot be calculated with the information provided. For example: what sort of bearing are you using for the see-saw? You have heavy weights and magnets, so this bearing might have lots of drag...or you could have some sort of precision flexure with essentially no drag. You will have air resistance, especially in the region of the gap between the moving magnets and the stationary coil assembly. You will have eddy current drag between the moving magnets and the stationary components. With careful (and expensive) design, these loss terms can be made very small, so in theory a small motor with little power input could set the system to oscillating.

_However_ you appear to be ignoring the most important term: the mechanical force associated with electrical power generation.

The basic relations that you need to know are:

A wire carrying 1A of current in a 1 tesla (10000 gauss) field will experience a force of 1 newton per meter of length.
A wire enclosing magnetic flux changing at a rate of 1 weber per second will have 1V induced around the loop.
Newton's third law: every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When the wire experiences a force the magnet experiences an equal and opposite force.

What does this mean:
1) When your magnets move past your coils of wire, you will induce voltage in the wire.
2) This voltage causes current to flow through the coil of wire and through the load.
3) The current flowing in the coil of wire is flowing in a magnetic field, so the wire experiences a force.
4) The magnet experiences an equal and opposite force, which acts to slow it down.

The exact values for the above forces can only be calculated using the exact design parameters of your system, but there is a very simple rule that makes it easy to ignore the calculations: the electrical power output of the system will _always_ be less (on average) than the mechanical power input to the system.

Good luck working to understand your own system.

-Jon

 

[Jraef]

Dear sir, The input energy source is a 3 volt TOY motor which will be attached with this balance system as per diagram . This balance system will move in linear direction with the help of this 3 volt toy motor so the source of input energy is 3 volt toy motor.

As I said earlier, and many have said again and again, you are CONSISTENTLY IGNORING the force the magnets will exert on the coils as they make current flow. As K8MHZ pointed out a while ago, look up and read what is called Lenze's Law. That's behind what we are all pointing out that you are leaving out of your equations here, time and time again. No matter how much you WANT to ignore them for the convenience of making your idea workable, the laws of nature and physics demand strict adherence.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Sir,please focus on the input force point and compare with conventional linear generator and this one device.In this device the input energy will be not wasted due to balance of gravity while in conventional linear generator input energy will be wasted to lift up the weight of magnets. There is a need of only very small amount of input energy in this device.

A very simple way to prove this won't work is to do the magnet experiment that was suggested in an earlier post. Get a length of aluminum or copper pipe and a high strength magnet that has an OD that is very close to the ID of the pipe and drop the magnet down the pipe. That will give you an idea of the amount of physical force needed to move the magnets in your machine.

There is a need for more input energy that you will get as output energy.

 

[drcampbell]

Sir, please focus on the input force ... There is a need of only very small amount of input energy in this device.

Let me suggest that you build a proof-of-concept model. Start with one small magnet, one small coil and one small light bulb, which won't require any more-sophisticated a "workshop" than a kitchen table and a pocketknife. Demonstrate how much force & velocity is required to create a small amount of electric power, then gradually scale up both your model and your mathematics.

Report back with your findings when you have them. There's nothing more persuasive than a working model to turn naysayers into believers.

 

[kwired]

Let me suggest that you build a proof-of-concept model. Start with one small magnet, one small coil and one small light bulb, which won't require any more-sophisticated a "workshop" than a kitchen table and a pocketknife. Demonstrate how much force & velocity is required to create a small amount of electric power, then gradually scale up both your model and your mathematics.

Report back with your findings when you have them. There's nothing more persuasive than a working model to turn naysayers into believers.

We get similar thing from architects an engineers at times - they tell you what to build, even give some fine details, yet you look at it and have to think they are asking for something not possible and would like to ask them if they can build it?

 

[winnie]

We get similar thing from architects an engineers at times - they tell you what to build, even give some fine details, yet you look at it and have to think they are asking for something not possible and would like to ask them if they can build it?

If I were professionally asked to build something that I believed could not possibly function, then I would suggest a small scale test and I would charge for my time to do the test.

If I were certain that something could not possibly work, I would not donate my time to demonstrate it.

-Jon

 

[kwired]

If I were professionally asked to build something that I believed could not possibly function, then I would suggest a small scale test and I would charge for my time to do the test.

If I were certain that something could not possibly work, I would not donate my time to demonstrate it.

-Jon

I understand, but who pays you for the test? The owner you are working for or the designer that the owner already paid for the design? Hopefully it is something you took care of at bid time and not something you discover in the middle of the project.

 

[junkhound]

Dear sirs:

I just bought me a pig. I'd asked a learned friend about a similar device as the OP, and she made some comments that got me to thinking!

a. How do I teach it to fly ? Some one commented somewhere "..and pigs can fly...". I did not know that, but if they can think of the advantages to having a flying pig.

b. The same pig person implied you can make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Now, we'un hillbillies gots lotsa sow's ears, and silk purses sound kinda nice. Please advise.

c. And whoever said the moderators here do not sometimes let non code related stuff float for the entertainment value, in spite of the fact that the 1548 NEC (New Elizabethian Codex) does not even know what an electrical toy is.

 

[JFletcher]

Dear sirs:

I just bought me a pig. I'd asked a learned friend about a similar device as the OP, and she made some comments that got me to thinking!

a. How do I teach it to fly ? Some one commented somewhere "..and pigs can fly...". I did not know that, but if they can think of the advantages to having a flying pig.

b. The same pig person implied you can make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Now, we'un hillbillies gots lotsa sow's ears, and silk purses sound kinda nice. Please advise.

c. And whoever said the moderators here do not sometimes let non code related stuff float for the entertainment value, in spite of the fact that the 1548 NEC (New Elizabethian Codex) does not even know what an electrical toy is.

:trying to contain my sheepish grin:

btw, it is a known fact that sheep are good for 3 things: condoms, bagpipes, and NZ jokes.

There is a company in Norway? that will turn your dead pets into drones, so, with enough money, your pet pig could fly, post mortum.

If a flying pig got caught in its own rotor blades, would you call the FAA or Weber grills?

 

[Jraef]

"..and pigs can fly...". I did not know that, but if they can think of the advantages to having a flying pig...

I can think of one major disadvantage of a flying pig, or any large animal... Especially if it flies over a fan.