Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity

[vikram_gupta11]

Mr. Gupta,

In theory, the system that you describe can be made to oscillate in a see-saw fashion with very little input of power, until you connect an output load to the generator coils.

There are various loss terms which cannot be calculated with the information provided. For example: what sort of bearing are you using for the see-saw? You have heavy weights and magnets, so this bearing might have lots of drag...or you could have some sort of precision flexure with essentially no drag. You will have air resistance, especially in the region of the gap between the moving magnets and the stationary coil assembly. You will have eddy current drag between the moving magnets and the stationary components. With careful (and expensive) design, these loss terms can be made very small, so in theory a small motor with little power input could set the system to oscillating.

_However_ you appear to be ignoring the most important term: the mechanical force associated with electrical power generation.

The basic relations that you need to know are:

A wire carrying 1A of current in a 1 tesla (10000 gauss) field will experience a force of 1 newton per meter of length.
A wire enclosing magnetic flux changing at a rate of 1 weber per second will have 1V induced around the loop.
Newton's third law: every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When the wire experiences a force the magnet experiences an equal and opposite force.

What does this mean:
1) When your magnets move past your coils of wire, you will induce voltage in the wire.
2) This voltage causes current to flow through the coil of wire and through the load.
3) The current flowing in the coil of wire is flowing in a magnetic field, so the wire experiences a force.
4) The magnet experiences an equal and opposite force, which acts to slow it down.

The exact values for the above forces can only be calculated using the exact design parameters of your system, but there is a very simple rule that makes it easy to ignore the calculations: the electrical power output of the system will _always_ be less (on average) than the mechanical power input to the system.

Good luck working to understand your own system.

-Jon

Dear Sir,Thank you very much for your response.
Sir,I think there is a feasibility in this design No matter if it's first system doesn't work but there is a scope in second repelling system in which balance system's magnets are repelling their side magnets.There is a need of some work and I have started work on this Idea and very soon will present a working model of this design.It is not necessary that this system will get input energy with 3 volt motor .This input energy may be anything like FOOT PRESSURE or with HAND PRESSURE or with wave energy or wind energy. There is also a feasibility in this design to develop a long range underwater vehicles.
Thanks again all of senior members and viewers.

 

[GoldDigger]

I wish you luck with your prototype.
I think that you will find that you can build a hand or foot powered generator this way, but the true test will be whether it can be as efficient and sturdy a generator as a more conventional rotating design.

 

[ggunn]

Dear Sir,Thank you very much for your response.
Sir,I think there is a feasibility in this design No matter if it's first system doesn't work but there is a scope in second repelling system in which balance system's magnets are repelling their side magnets.There is a need of some work and I have started work on this Idea and very soon will present a working model of this design.It is not necessary that this system will get input energy with 3 volt motor .This input energy may be anything like FOOT PRESSURE or with HAND PRESSURE or with wave energy or wind energy. There is also a feasibility in this design to develop a long range underwater vehicles.
Thanks again all of senior members and viewers.

What, may I ask, are your educational credentials? Are you formally educated in physics and/or electrical engineering? If not, well that's pretty much the end of it. If you are, then you are, as charitably as I can put it, engaging in charlatanism.

This is pure PSMJ - PseudoScientific Mumbo Jumbo. You cannot pour a gallon of water into an empty bucket and then pour ten gallons out.

 

[mbrooke]

What, may I ask, are your educational credentials? Are you formally educated in physics and/or electrical engineering? If not, well that's pretty much the end of it. If you are, then you are, as charitably as I can put it, engaging in charlatanism.

This is pure PSMJ - PseudoScientific Mumbo Jumbo. You cannot pour a gallon of water into an empty bucket and then pour ten gallons out.

If this is for educational purposes, then let him be. Everyone has to start somewhere. If you only knew how much a smoked electronics before I figured out it doesn't work that way.

 

[K8MHZ]

If this is for educational purposes, then let him be. Everyone has to start somewhere. If you only knew how much a smoked electronics before I figured out it doesn't work that way.

At one time wasn't it taboo here to speak of greater than unity power generation devices?

 

[JFletcher]

What, may I ask, are your educational credentials? Are you formally educated in physics and/or electrical engineering? If not, well that's pretty much the end of it. If you are, then you are, as charitably as I can put it, engaging in charlatanism.

This is pure PSMJ - PseudoScientific Mumbo Jumbo. You cannot pour a gallon of water into an empty bucket and then pour ten gallons out.

Sure you can, you just need super concentrated powdered water additive. It's sold on the same aisle as smoke replacement kits:

 

[mbrooke]

At one time wasn't it taboo here to speak of greater than unity power generation devices?

No idea, but it is essential for new physics students. And those working on cold fusion Seriously, I think we all have that misguided moment in learning where we think a gear reduction mechanism is going to solve the world's energy needs.

 

[kwired]

Sure you can, you just need super concentrated powdered water additive. It's sold on the same aisle as smoke replacement kits:

View attachment 15536

They make that at a place I do work for, when they start up their dryer that makes powder out of liquids, they initially pump water while preheating and stabilizing the system. Once in a while I mention they need to make sure there is guys in the bagging house to bag that powdered water that is coming out of the dryer. Sometimes when we are having burner or temperature control issues we also run water instead of product while troubleshooting.

 

[junkhound]

Since I have a Land Rover, went to ebay to buy a can of the Lucas p/n 530433 smoke replacement kit. They must have run out, no one has it for sale on ebay, but did find some online at alibarbra with a refill tube for $48.95 ! Label was different, must be counterfit !
A Rover dealer in Australia does have a small stock left of virgin Lucas smoke.

I did see that it is not UL approved smoke though.

Many of you probably are not old enough to remember when a lot of folks smoked in the workplace. Common joke on the newbies repairing electronics or motors was to route a small tube to their work an blow a lungfull of cancer into their panel and watch the aghast face and dive for the main CB !

 

[Fulthrotl]

Dear sirs:

I just bought me a pig. I'd asked a learned friend about a similar device as the OP, and she made some comments that got me to thinking!

a. How do I teach it to fly ? Some one commented somewhere "..and pigs can fly...". I did not know that, but if they can think of the advantages to having a flying pig.

b. The same pig person implied you can make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Now, we'un hillbillies gots lotsa sow's ears, and silk purses sound kinda nice. Please advise.

c. And whoever said the moderators here do not sometimes let non code related stuff float for the entertainment value, in spite of the fact that the 1548 NEC (New Elizabethian Codex) does not even know what an electrical toy is.

you are doomed to failure.

you have taken a pigs ear, and have left the pig tone deaf.

you now want the pig to sing?

egad!

 

[Fulthrotl]

This is pure PSMJ - PseudoScientific Mumbo Jumbo. You cannot pour a gallon of water into an empty bucket and then pour ten gallons out.

obviously, you have never seen the united states treasury at work.

 

[vikram_gupta11]

obviously, you have never seen the united states treasury at work.

its a human nature that at first we deny and after successfully development we accept it. I have got some initial success with second magnetic repelling system and will present a working model soon .

 

[winnie]

Good luck with your endeavors.

I anticipate that you will be successful at generating electricity. I further anticipate that the electrical energy that you produce will be less than the mechanical energy needed to operate your system.

Should you succeed in violating conservation of energy, be prepared to demonstrate your system to a much higher standard of proof; IMHO it is _far_ more likely that you would have made a measurement error than that your system would have generated more energy than it consumed.

-Jon

 

[ggunn]

Its a human nature that at first we deny and after successfully development we accept it.

Nope, at least not in this case. It is very alluring to think that you are in possession of knowledge that will turn the whole scientific and engineering worlds on their heads, and it happens a lot, but in every case it is the person who is touting the perpetual motion machine who ends up on his head. This is no different.

I asked before and I will ask again: what are your credentials? Are you educated in physics and/or electrical engineering?

 

[vikram_gupta11]

Good luck with your endeavors.

I anticipate that you will be successful at generating electricity. I further anticipate that the electrical energy that you produce will be less than the mechanical energy needed to operate your system.

Should you succeed in violating conservation of energy, be prepared to demonstrate your system to a much higher standard of proof; IMHO it is _far_ more likely that you would have made a measurement error than that your system would have generated more energy than it consumed.

-Jon

Dear Sir,
give me some time as I'm preparing a working model of this technology and will demonstrate this working model before this forum and I assure you that there is no measurement error in readings.

Everything is possible.

 

[vikram_gupta11]

Nope, at least not in this case. It is very alluring to think that you are in possession of knowledge that will turn the whole scientific and engineering worlds on their heads, and it happens a lot, but in every case it is the person who is touting the perpetual motion machine who ends up on his head. This is no different.

I asked before and I will ask again: what are your credentials? Are you educated in physics and/or electrical engineering?

dear Sir,
I'm not an electrical engineer .I just have interest in inventing new technology not only in the field of Electrical engineering but also in Aerospace, Automation,Mechanical and many more.but you cannot measure someone 's talent with his educational backround .The Educational degree is not an scale to measure someone's talent.. This Idea is violating or not violating the physics laws I don't know. I also have studied thermodynamics laws very carefully before submit this Idea.
I will prove myself .

Everything is Possible.

 

[vikram_gupta11]

Nope, at least not in this case. It is very alluring to think that you are in possession of knowledge that will turn the whole scientific and engineering worlds on their heads, and it happens a lot, but in every case it is the person who is touting the perpetual motion machine who ends up on his head. This is no different.

I asked before and I will ask again: what are your credentials? Are you educated in physics and/or electrical engineering?

Dear sir,
If we go back in history then we found that many inventions Ideas were rejected by Experts but develop successfully later and so this one .I know that no one will be agree with this Idea that we can get more output than input however i post this idea .There is a need of a working model to prove this idea and I have got some initial success .

everything is possible.

 

[JFletcher]

vikram, your persistence, tenacity, and ideas are admirable. You are correct in that many scientific conventions of the time were later proven possible, such as breaking the sound barrier. and education doesnt equate to talent. That said...

You cannot get more energy or power out of a machine than you put in. You're not just proposing perpetual motion, but in essence infinite energy. Let me demonstrate:

Say you build a machine that takes x amount of power on input, and outputs >x power. Now, feed a portion of that extra power back thru the input, ad infinitum. You no longer have a need for the initial input power, as the machine is generating its own power. Assuming the machine could be regulated and built to withstand nearly infinite forces, you could essentially take something like an automobile alternator and use it to drive an aircraft carrier at mach speed. or build a bomb the size of a hand grenade that would obliterate not only our planet, but the entire solar system.

Building a machine that uses nearly infinite or inexhaustible input energy, such as changes in air pressure, tidal forces, or radiation/solar and turns it into something usable, like electricity, is nearly the same holy grail and not scientifically impossible like your proposed energy generation.

Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[vikram_gupta11]

vikram, your persistence, tenacity, and ideas are admirable. You are correct in that many scientific conventions of the time were later proven possible, such as breaking the sound barrier. and education doesnt equate to talent. That said...

You cannot get more energy or power out of a machine than you put in. You're not just proposing perpetual motion, but in essence infinite energy. Let me demonstrate:

Say you build a machine that takes x amount of power on input, and outputs >x power. Now, feed a portion of that extra power back thru the input, ad infinitum. You no longer have a need for the initial input power, as the machine is generating its own power. Assuming the machine could be regulated and built to withstand nearly infinite forces, you could essentially take something like an automobile alternator and use it to drive an aircraft carrier at mach speed. or build a bomb the size of a hand grenade that would obliterate not only our planet, but the entire solar system.

Building a machine that uses nearly infinite or inexhaustible input energy, such as changes in air pressure, tidal forces, or radiation/solar and turns it into something usable, like electricity, is nearly the same holy grail and not scientifically impossible like your proposed energy generation.

Good luck in your endeavors.

Dear sir,

If I asked you a question that can we lift up a 1000 kilogram weight with the help of our finger tips before posting this Idea then your answer would be 'NO' it is IMPOSSIBLE and all of would be agreed with you that it is impossible to lift up a 1000 kilogram weight .Now at least this Idea has given us a point that it is possible to lift up a 1000 ,10000 or more weight with the help of very little force.

Sir,I have got some initial success and working on this model as I want to convinced myself .
I'm not forcing anyone that try a model of this technology if someone is interested then he can try it .

I M POSSIBLE.

 

[iwire]

everything is possible.

No, not everything is possible.

Many things are impossible such as getting more than you put in.