Electrical PVC

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jkmonroe

Member
Location
New mexico
I need some help finding in writing where we have to use grey PVC conduit and not white PVC. I know the grey PVC is rated for the use for electricl raceway use, but a customer wants to see it in writing where that is stated. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I need some help finding in writing where we have to use grey PVC conduit and not white PVC. I know the grey PVC is rated for the use for electricl raceway use, but a customer wants to see it in writing where that is stated. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

What's wrong with your customer, he can't just simply take your word for it?

It's not a Ch. 3 wiring method but 352.6 is probably the clincher. With that said, I've came across a lot of white pvc being used out here on farms. It doesn't bother me though because the wiring that is installed in it is direct burial. I just consider it a little extra protection.
 
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KevinVost

Senior Member
Location
Las Vegas
The answer your looking for is in several places. First the NEC says products must be used and installed per their listing, see 110.3 B. With that said, unless the white plumbing PVC conduit has a listing (either UL or another NRTL) that says it can be used for electrical conduit or raceway then you can not use if for that purpose. So there is not a direct paper that says you can't, there are several rules that get you to that result.
 

bhsrnd

Senior Member
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Article 352.6 states all fittings shall be listed, but where is it listed???

I would assume the pipe itself would have a listing mark (UL, CE, etc..)...either that or a little more investigation with the pipe manufacturer would have to occur to find out which products are listed for what use.
 

edavis2293

Member
Location
Houston, Texas
listed and labeled

listed and labeled

110.3(B). The labeling is normally printed along the PVC. I use the water pipe (white) because it is cheaper and only used with cables or conductors listed for wet locations.
 

billsnuff

Senior Member
2005 white book

2005 white book

RIGID NONMETALLIC SCHEDULE 40 AND
SCHEDULE 80 PVC CONDUIT (DZYR)
USE AND INSTALLATION
This category covers rigid nonmetallic PVC conduit (Schedule 40 and
Schedule 80), including straight conduit and elbows in trade sizes 1/2 to 6
(metric designators 16 to 155) inclusive, intended for installation as rigid
nonmetallic raceway for wire and cable in accordance with Article 352 of
ANSI/NFPA 70, ??National Electrical Code?? (NEC).
Schedule 40 conduit is suitable for underground use by direct burial or
encasement in concrete. Schedule 40 conduit is also suitable for aboveground
use indoors or outdoors exposed to sunlight and weather where
not subject to physical damage.
Schedule 80 conduit has a reduced cross-sectional area available for wiring
space and is suitable for use wherever Schedule 40 conduit may be
used. The marking ??Schedule 80 PVC?? identifies conduit suitable for use
where exposed to physical damage and for installation on poles in accordance
with the NEC.
Unless marked for higher temperature, rigid nonmetallic conduit is
intended for use with wire rated 75?C or less including where it is
encased in concrete within buildings and where ambient temperature is
50?C or less. Where encased in concrete in trenches outside of buildings it
is suitable for use with wires rated 90?C or less.
Listed PVC conduit is inherently resistant to atmosphere containing
common industrial corrosive agents and will also withstand vapors or
mist of caustic, pickling acids, plating bath and hydrofluoric and chromic
acids.
PVC conduit and elbows (including couplings) that have been investigated
for direct exposure to other reagents may be identified by the designation
??Reagent Resistant?? printed on the surface of the product. Such
special uses are described as follows: Where exposed to the following
reagents at 60?C or less: Acetic, Nitric (25?C only) acids in concentrations
not exceeding 1/2 normal; hydrochloric acid in concentrations not exceeding
30 percent; sulfuric acid in concentrations not exceeding 10 normal;
sulfuric acid in concentrations not exceeding 80 percent (25?C only); concentrated
or dilute ammonium hydroxide; sodium hydroxide solutions in
concentrations not exceeding 50 percent; saturated or dilute sodium chloride
solution; cottonseed oil, or ASTM 3 petroleum oil.
PVC conduit is designed for connection to couplings, fittings and boxes
by the use of a suitable solvent-type cement. Instructions supplied by the
solvent-type cement manufacturer describe the method of assembly and
precautions to be followed.
RELATED PRODUCTS
For additional Listings of rigid nonmetallic conduit suitable for underground
use, see Reinforced Thermosetting Resin Conduit (DZKT) and
Rigid Nonmetallic Underground Conduit, Plastic (EAZX).
Fittings for rigid nonmetallic conduit are covered under Conduit Fittings
(DWTT).
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
For additional information, see Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary
Locations (AALZ).
REQUIREMENTS
The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is
ANSI/UL 651, ??Schedule 40 and 80 Rigid PVC Conduit.??
UL MARK
The Listing Mark of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. on the product is the
only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its
Listing and Follow-Up Service. The Listing Mark for these products
includes the UL symbol (as illustrated in the Introduction of this Directory)
together with the word ?LISTED,? a control number, and the product
name ??Rigid Nonmetallic Conduit Aboveground and Underground
(Schedule 40)?? or ??Rigid Nonmetallic Conduit Aboveground and Underground
Extra Heavy Wall (Schedule 80).??
 

resistance

Senior Member
Location
WA
If you need more proof, then check with your serving utility company. They may have the information you need on paper.

Here is what one of our serving utility companies has (Brief):

Underground Conduit
Underground conduit must be either rigid steel or
listed gray Schedule 40 PVC
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Take a close look at the cut end of both gray electric conduit and white plumbing pipe.

In our gray pipe, it's solid, through and through. On plumbing pipe, it looks like it's aeriated, or has little air bubbles in it. This is called cellular core pipe, and is common in the larger sizes of pipe (usually 1?" and up). Cellular core construction involves the simultaneous extrusion of at least three layers of material into the pipe wall: a solid outer layer, a cellular core intermediate layer, and a solid inner layer.

While plumbing pipe is typically solid in smaller sizes, it can be had in cellular core but is not that common. Smaller sizes are used for water pipes where pressure is present, while the larger sizes are used for non-pressure vents and drains.
 

speedystevie

Senior Member
Location
Long Island, NY
110.3(B). The labeling is normally printed along the PVC. I use the water pipe (white) because it is cheaper and only used with cables or conductors listed for wet locations.

This is a funny quote cause it sounds like your using wet location rated wires because your using plumbing pipe, as if the pipe is serving two purposes, electrical and plumbing at the same time.
 

Twoskinsoneman

Senior Member
Location
West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
Occupation
Facility Senior Electrician
This leads me to something that has always bothered me.
IMO the only thing keeping you from using the water plumbing is 110.3(B).
What I would like to see is a modification to 110.8 to specifically prohibit wiring methods that are not in the code.

All it says now is wiring methods in the code are permitted. It doesn't really say non-nec methods are not permitted....

110.8 Wiring Methods.
Only wiring methods recognized
as suitable are included in this
Code. The recognized methods
of wiring shall be permitted to be installed in any type
of building or occupancy, except as otherwise provided in

this
Code.
 
110.3(B). The labeling is normally printed along the PVC. I use the water pipe (white) because it is cheaper and only used with cables or conductors listed for wet locations.


46 years of experience, or so your bio says that???

Do you get or have a requirement for inspections in your area?
I cannot believe that would be so, as White Pipe is plumbing and most inspectors would let you understand that.

To the OP
As a GC, you should contact your EC and let him explain it to the customer, I am sure the customer may believe the EC moreso than you in regards to electrical matters.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
The bottom line is, Gray PVC is "conduit", white PVC is pipe

Conduit is a raceway, and raceways are covered specifically throughout Chapter 3, there is no article for Plumbing Pipe being a raceway in Chapter 3

Roger
 

edavis2293

Member
Location
Houston, Texas
OK, my bad. I did not mean to imply I would use water pipe as a substitute for PVC conduit used as a raceway. If I am running direct burial cables or conductors, I have used it for a sleeve under a sidewalk or any other place I felt I needed it. These were used in short lengths and in occassional situations. I have done this in Oklahoma, Colorado, and Texas, all with inspections. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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