Electricity 100

[brian john]

I am seriously considering teaching a class ?Electricity for electricians?

Very little theory, very little code. PRACTICAL ELECTRICITY. I am basing this on my experience and some of the most common topics posted here. Now I know that some code must be covered but I feel most electricians doing service and trouble shooting seem baffled by the NEC I would try to get basics that I see and hear all the time into their heads while stressing the importance of them following up with a NEC course.

I am open to suggestions for topics. I WANT ALL INPUT.

1. How and why circuit breakers and fuses operate, such as a 20 amp circuit
breaker does not trip at 21 amps like many electricians think. What to do when
OCP?s open (safe method of restoring power)
2. Grounding trying to demystify the MAGIC. What happens with an open neutral,
downstream grounds and PROBER use of green screws at a main service and
subpanels.
3. Operation of GFP systems and how to safely investigate.
4. Transformers operation and grounding, to include buck boost.

 

[mivey]

Capacitive coupling & ghost voltage
Vector math & summation of currents (one plue one can equal one)
Temperature adjustments

 

[brian john]

Capacitive coupling & ghost voltage
Vector math & summation of currents (one plue one can equal one)
Temperature adjustments

EXCELLENT suggestions.

 

[jim dungar]

Don't forget to remind them that, even in small commercial installations, there are more system voltages than just: 120/240 1PH 3W, 208Y/120 3PH 4W, and 480Y/277 3PH 4W.

 

[brian john]

Don't forget to remind them that, even in small commercial installations, there are more system voltages than just: 120/240 1PH 3W, 208Y/120 3PH 4W, and 480Y/277 3PH 4W.

Tha's why you guys get the big bucks, I forgot some VERY BASIC stuff.


How to use a megger.

 

[iwire]

Vector math & summation of currents (one plue one can equal one)

IMO those subjects are well beyond 'electricity 101' for electricians.

Get them to understand and apply Article 250 then worry about the rest.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I am very curious about how you may go about this.

I have been teaching adults, who are the field. Some of them have been in the field more than 20 years.

Generally speaking, the issues are the same for most of these guys. I believe some of the issues stem from the fact that so many inspectors in our area are not too good with the code, seriously.

So...
1. how many hours do you think this will take?
2. how many hours will you present in one sitting?
3. what method of presenting are you thinking of?
4. will this be after work, weekends, or are you thinking of trying to get them there during the day?
5. where will you have your classes?, Hall, shop, classroom?
6. will you present a certificate of completion?
7. do you plan on testing them or just presenting the info?
8. will you have handouts? In color?
9. When instructing electricians, sometime it is difficult to have students with different years of experience in the same class, such as guys from year 1-2, year 2-4 and then all others

In regards to topics, that is secondary until you can figure out some of the above.

 

[mivey]

IMO those subjects are well beyond 'electricity 101' for electricians.

Get them to understand and apply Article 250 then worry about the rest.

Too simple to skip.

You can get the idea across without having to teach a math class. They don't need to know the sines and cosines, or even how to calculate the currents.

I can make the point with 3 simple lines. The point being currents don't necessarily lay on the same axis where you can just add and subtract them.

The 1 + 1 = 1 is just a good attention getter for a sleepy class.

 

[iwire]

Too simple to skip.

Have you worked with electricians?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Have you worked with electricians?

He lost me with 1+1=1:-?

I have a hard enough time with 1+1=3

 

[mivey]

In regards to topics, that is secondary until you can figure out some of the above.

I disagree. You need to have your material available for multiple arrangements. Get your topics together. Sort into beginning, intermediate, advanced. Sort from high to low importance.

Once you have done this, you can design a 1/2 day class, a full day class, or a multiple day class. Then for each class, start with the easy (you will lose the newbies later anyway as they will get confused over most anything) and work toward the more advance topics. Hit the important topics and, if you have time, cover the less important.

You can customize each class to the target audience/venue but be ready to make changes with very little notice. Bring the 100 slide presentation with you as well as the 50 slide presentation and be prepared to customize on the fly.

 

[mivey]

Have you worked with electricians?

Yes, and linemen, billing clerks, mayors, councilmen, lay people, etc. The tough part is making it simple enough for a child to understand, but I can usually teach most anybody.

You want to try to keep your class with as homogeneous of a skill set as possible, or you are going to constantly have 1/2 of them asleep.

The problem is, a lot of them don't see the material ever day and will forget most of what you tell them. You need about three good "if you don't remember anything else" points for those people.

 

[mivey]

He lost me with 1+1=1:-?

I have a hard enough time with 1+1=3

Sum the one-amp resistive line currents on a 3-wire 120/208 volt supply. The neutral current equals one. No time for graphic but:
"/" + "\"
=
\
/
=
|
|

 

[iwire]

We will remain in disagreement, I have pretty strong feelings about what I need from my coworkers and their knowledge of 1+1=1 is far below my need for them to know where and when to install a bonding jumper, when to use 250.122 vs 250.66, etc.

If they want to learn how to design thats great but I need them to know how to install first.:smile:

 

[iwire]

Sum the one-amp resistive line currents on a 3-wire 120/208 volt supply. The neutral current equals one. No time for graphic but:
"/" + "\"
=
\
/
=
|
|

LOL, oh yeah that helps.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I disagree. You need to have your material available for multiple arrangements. Get your topics together. Sort into beginning, intermediate, advanced. Sort from high to low importance.

Once you have done this, you can design a 1/2 day class, a full day class, or a multiple day class. Then for each class, start with the easy (you will lose the newbies later anyway as they will get confused over most anything) and work toward the more advance topics. Hit the important topics and, if you have time, cover the less important.

You can customize each class to the target audience/venue but be ready to make changes with very little notice. Bring the 100 slide presentation with you as well as the 50 slide presentation and be prepared to customize on the fly.

Disagreeing is good, as Brian will get to hear/see the different sides and make his decision accordingly.


BTW:
Just as in class/teaching, you need to know your audience...
The post with your explanation is not really of much use for the average electrician on this board. It makes no sense at all to me, but probably makes plenty of sense to Engineers...I think?

99.9999999999% electricians do not want to know what you posted.
As Bob mentioned, they want the 'meat and potatoes'

 

[ultramegabob]

The 1 + 1 = 1 is just a good attention getter for a sleepy class.

I must be tired, because this is catching my attention....

 

[iwire]

The post with your explanation is not really of much use for the average electrician on this board. It makes no sense at all to me, but probably makes plenty of sense to Engineers...I think?

You stated my feelings much better then I did.

 

[ptrip]

He lost me with 1+1=1:-?

I have a hard enough time with 1+1=3

That's where 3 phase comes from ... right? :grin:

Sum the one-amp resistive line currents on a 3-wire 120/208 volt supply. The neutral current equals one. No time for graphic but:
"/" + "\"
=
\
/
=
|
|

And I believe this made sense to me ... or I'm tired enough at the end of a long day that anything will make sense to me!

---

I personally would love a basics class. From the Engineer's perspective there's a lot that I don't know in the basic workings of electricity. Black and white on paper is very different from the nuts and bolts of actually putting it together.

Pam

 

[mivey]

BTW:
Just as in class/teaching, you need to know your audience...
The post with your explanation is not really of much use for the average electrician on this board. It makes no sense at all to me, but probably makes plenty of sense to Engineers...I think?

I'm not sure, it barely made sense to me as I was trying to make some keyboard entries into graphics. I was just too lazy to draw anything. The idea was to have one current vector at one angle (/), and another at a different angle (\). Graphically summing them by putting them head to tail:
\
/
gives you the current sum:
|
|

If I had felt like it, I would have drawn 1 amp at 0 degrees, 1 amp at 120 degrees, and shown the head-to-tail sum of 1 amp at 60 degrees.

Do you not think it is common for an electrician to read the currents on the line conductors and assume there must be a "stray" current somewhere because the neutral does not produce the scalar difference?

ok. Maybe not the run-of-the mill electrician, but those that like to dig a little deeper might.