First year in business and just had my first digruntled customer

[rt66electric]

can I have a copy???

can I have a copy???

the "little old lady" slapped you in the face!
But, if you go around thinking that every customer is going to slap you in the face you"ll never get anywhere!
I used to t&m, now i flatrate wherever possible. I have a standard :Customer authorisation Form" which we use with all our customers. We advise of the minimum charge over the phone, so they know it will cost At Least x amount of dollars. When we arrive at the job, we go through with the customer to understand what They WANT to acheive. We then use our flat rate book and put every job on the Customer Authorisation form, with a price on the bottom, if the customer accepts, they sign the form we complete the work, if they don't accept, we thank them for the opportunity and hand a bill for our minimum charge. Has worked every time so far. We used to have the same issues with customers trying to say we charged them too much etc, now they know the work we are completing, when it has to be payed for, and how much it will cost them before we start the job. We have had Very positive feedback and our customers see this Service as better than all of our competition for these reasons. I am not on the Flat Rate "conversion committee" but consider it, and consider using contracts, and hopefully you will get a lot less "Slaps in the face"
Just my 2 cents, as it works for me.

This sounds like a good play on dubious customers. May I please have copy?? DENNIS

 

[rt66electric]

MOST people happy MOST of time??

MOST people happy MOST of time??

MULE: If you can make MOST of the people happy MOST of the time; call it good. Don't sweat the single odd unhappy person. The northern guys' reasoning of getting a signed proposal/scope-scope-of-work/piece-of-paper is looking better and better.
I'm tired of justifing my every labor second and calculating $ for idiot-parts.

 

[electricguy]

Words and phrases to consider when speaking with the customer:

Instead of cheaper say less expensive
Instead of worthless say less value
Instead of let me tell you say based on my experiences
Instead of beginner's guide say basic steps
Instead of less dangerous say safer
Instead of it's in great condition say it's been well cared for
Instead of the latest thing say breakthrough idea
Instead of contract say agreement
Instead of mixed colors say blended colors
Instead of I can't tell you say those are guarded secrets
Instead of small piece say bite sized
Instead of loud fashion say it's a bold look
Instead of have lots of say have dozens of or hundreds of
Instead of fix say fine tune
Instead of I think say I'm a firm believer in
Instead of knows all about it say had first hand experience
Instead of best say first class
Instead of painless say pain-free
Instead of original say first of its kind
Instead of your offer is too low say this is a bold offer
Instead of make some time say free up my schedule
Instead of broke say frugal times
Instead of to the floor say it's full length
Instead of rug mats say carpet mats
Instead of not difficult say it's easy
Instead of won't work right say function less
Instead of fully covered say fully insured
Instead of listen to me say take my advice
Instead of I'm sorry say I apologize
Instead of what we sell say what we offer
Instead of can I get your signature say can I get your o.k.
Instead of down payment say initial investment

I spend hours each day researching business , Mostly on this site Thanks so much for all your time and effort posting on these forums giving us links to various articles in being a better contractor publications, you sure seem to be able to find this stuff and share with all.
thanks again

 

[Mule]

This sounds like you're assuming the customer likes it but you really don't know.

Maybe the customer would prefer something in writing before you start the work but are leaving it up to you since your the professional.

geez guys, I present T/M agreements in writting but its just not signed, and the handshake is just a figure of speach, but it does happen from time to time


and tell ole Rewire, I do wear my seat belt......despite the words he puts in me.....:grin:

 

[LarryFine]

We advise of the minimum charge over the phone, so they know it will cost At Least x amount of dollars. . . . if they don't accept, we thank them for the opportunity and hand a bill for our minimum charge.

They understand in the phone call that the minimum charge includes just you showing up for the talk? I get the "But you didn't do any work!" argument too often.

This sounds like a good play on dubious customers. May I please have copy?? DENNIS

Me, too, please? (Dennis?)

 

[JohnJ0906]

This lady just lost her husband last fall, and she is taking care of the rental business now, and is in over her head as theres alot of things she doesnt understand about our work.

I think this is the crux of the problem.

something i've learned in dealing with people is this... they are looking at
you thru a filter made up of their own fears. sorry vern, it isn't all about you.

you are not the center of her world. her fears are the center of her world.
she is projecting her fears onto everyone and everything she interacts with.

 

[bmwnut]

I have found that most people with a lot of money must have got it that way Not paying there bills
I aways over charge so i can take some off so they feel like they got away wit this crap
Ha Ha

 

[Mr. Wizard]

About 8 years ago, a local mini-mart wanted me to add a circuit for an ice-cream machine. I told them I'd do it for $800, and was told to go ahead and start, the owner would be by soon. On his word (which is something I will never, ever rely on again - from ANY customer), I told them it would be around $150 in material, and they gave me cash to go to the supply house. Got what I needed, came back and started. Moved several counters and displays, opend ceiling tiles, and began running the MC. Cashier brings me the phone, and it's the owner, saying that my price was too high, and he would only give me $200 to do the work. I said o.k., picked up my tools and walked out, leaving the place in a mess. Mule, not knocking your way of thinking, but treating most everthing with a handshake will only lead to further mis-understandings and headache, or in the case of loosing a friend over business - heartache. I have learned my lesson, and now I get everthing up front in writing. And getting everything written down is great because you don't have to remember anything - it's written down :smile:

 

[alfiesauce]

Seems to me he said it was written down.
Mule could have gone back to his original bill and showed her or anyone else backing her up that the original ticket was just a 'to date' bill with the statement on the bottom of the bill that he would be back later to finish the job. The lady screwed up buy paying two bills with one check, thus not having her accounting records in proper order and that allowed to to assume the wrong thing.
It seems to me she baffled Mule by questioning his character so bad he didn't want to fight the battle.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Growler,

What I was really getting at without making it to long, is that she's not a friend, if she were she wouldn't be trying to cheat him out of his money, regardless of what she "thought". Small town or not, maybe people already know how she is, but Mule doesn't need the reputation of a guy that's easy to "cheat" either. (I simply used the word cheat, because I couldn't think of a better word)

I had a situation very much like this one, it was a lady that my boss had done work for for years, and one day she had some work she wanted done and he told me to just go do it for her on my own. So I did and then again and then agian, the last time I went over after I had gotten off of work, to search for a dropped neutral that had been dropped for the second time (I could tell that she had other people working on the house, but she would never admit it) so after a couple of hours and a soda she had given me I found the problem and presented her with a bill for $60 bucks (this was almost 30 years ago).

She says, "but $60 is so much how about $40"
I said "ma'am it's 6:00 at night and I've been here for two hours, it's $60."
"But I gave you a soda."
"So you figure that the soda was worth $20? Give me the $40 and my card back and never call me again."
"But I thought we were friends."
"We were, but friends don't cheat friends."

I tell my boss what happened and he just smiled and said yeah, she kept doing the same thing to me.:smile: Thanks boss.

 

[Mule]

Growler,

What I was really getting at without making it to long, is that she's not a friend, if she were she wouldn't be trying to cheat him out of his money, regardless of what she "thought". Small town or not, maybe people already know how she is, but Mule doesn't need the reputation of a guy that's easy to "cheat" either. (I simply used the word cheat, because I couldn't think of a better word)

I had a situation very much like this one, it was a lady that my boss had done work for for years, and one day she had some work she wanted done and he told me to just go do it for her on my own. So I did and then again and then agian, the last time I went over after I had gotten off of work, to search for a dropped neutral that had been dropped for the second time (I could tell that she had other people working on the house, but she would never admit it) so after a couple of hours and a soda she had given me I found the problem and presented her with a bill for $60 bucks (this was almost 30 years ago).

She says, "but $60 is so much how about $40"
I said "ma'am it's 6:00 at night and I've been here for two hours, it's $60."
"But I gave you a soda."
"So you figure that the soda was worth $20? Give me the $40 and my card back and never call me again."
"But I thought we were friends."
"We were, but friends don't cheat friends."

I tell my boss what happened and he just smiled and said yeah, she kept doing the same thing to me.:smile: Thanks boss.

In truth, my intentions where to sease being her electrician, eat the bill, and salvage any dirt she might throw behind my back. By telling her Im still her friend, and just agreeing to disagree, maybe she wont trash my name.....however she knows I wont work for her again..........I got that from another contractor friend that said, when a customer screws you, tell them upfront, "Dont ever call me again"

 

[satcom]

Cowboy pretty much covered it, many years ago we had a old widow that had every trade in town do work for her, she would tell everyone that would listen, how things cost too much and she din't have the money, so every craftsman in town fixed just about everything in the home, and either din;t charge or charged very little, a few years later she passed and it turned out her estate was worth millions, more then any of us will ever have, and her son sold the fixed up home, and just added the rewards of hard working, but not to business like contractors to his millions, we all learned a valuable lesson back then, charity is for the needy, and if your making it in your business you can help the needy, but if your business is failing, they you will be one of the truly needy.

 

[cowboyjwc]

In truth, my intentions where to sease being her electrician, eat the bill, and salvage any dirt she might throw behind my back. By telling her Im still her friend, and just agreeing to disagree, maybe she wont trash my name.....however she knows I wont work for her again..........I got that from another contractor friend that said, when a customer screws you, tell them upfront, "Dont ever call me again"

I understood completly and that's why my original post said I would have handled it the same way.:smile:

 

[growler]

Growler,

What I was really getting at without making it to long, is that she's not a friend, if she were she wouldn't be trying to cheat him out of his money, regardless of what she "thought". Small town or not, maybe people already know how she is, but Mule doesn't need the reputation of a guy that's easy to "cheat" either. (I simply used the word cheat, because I couldn't think of a better word)

I had a situation very much like this one, it was a lady that my boss had done work for for years, and one day she had some work she wanted done and he told me to just go do it for her on my own. So I did and then again and then agian, the last time I went over after I had gotten off of work, to search for a dropped neutral that had been dropped for the second time (I could tell that she had other people working on the house, but she would never admit it) so after a couple of hours and a soda she had given me I found the problem and presented her with a bill for $60 bucks (this was almost 30 years ago).

She says, "but $60 is so much how about $40"
I said "ma'am it's 6:00 at night and I've been here for two hours, it's $60."
"But I gave you a soda."
"So you figure that the soda was worth $20? Give me the $40 and my card back and never call me again."
"But I thought we were friends."
"We were, but friends don't cheat friends."

I tell my boss what happened and he just smiled and said yeah, she kept doing the same thing to me.:smile: Thanks boss.

This really doesn't sound like a normal business transaction but more like a green kid trying to pick up a few bucks doing side work.

$60 doesn't sound like much now but it does equate to about $180.00 in todays funny money.

John for some reason you don't think that a company should charge this kind of money now for a service call and yet as a green side worker the rates were perfectly acceptable to you and should have also been to the customer.

She may have been right to question your price unless labor rates were established before work was performed.

 

[growler]

Folks if you read all the details about this incident the lady did have the right to question a bill that she recieved out of the blue with no authorization.

After the first little conversations it seem that an argument was started and things got pretty nasty.

There is not a judge in the country that would even attempt to decide who is right and who is wrong after only hearing one side of an argument.

It may sound as if mule were the cheated victom but I'm sure the lady is making an equally valid case over at the old crones web site. Those old ladies are probably getting the tar heated up and the feathers ready but they don't have any more information than we do, they only have the word of one person.

 

[satcom]

Folks if you read all the details about this incident the lady did have the right to question a bill that she recieved out of the blue with no authorization.

After the first little conversations it seem that an argument was started and things got pretty nasty.

There is not a judge in the country that would even attempt to decide who is right and who is wrong after only hearing one side of an argument.

It may sound as if mule were the cheated victom but I'm sure the lady is making an equally valid case over at the old crones web site. Those old ladies are probably getting the tar heated up and the feathers ready but they don't have any more information than we do, they only have the word of one person.

Which is why we end up giving the same advice always have a written signed contract, before starting any work. The contract is the road map for ending up at the perfect location, Happyville

 

[growler]

Which is why we end up giving the same advice always have a written signed contract, before starting any work. The contract is the road map for ending up at the perfect location, Happyville

That's it exactly. I'm sure they both feel they are right on some level but these feeling are more emotional than factual. Only the contract would provide unbiased evidence and it doesn't exist.

 

[Rewire]

That's it exactly. I'm sure they both feel they are right on some level but these feeling are more emotional than factual. Only the contract would provide unbiased evidence and it doesn't exist.

Somewere in this thread the Mule said he presented a T & M proposal,give it time the trurh may surfase yet.

 

[Mule]

Somewere in this thread the Mule said he presented a T & M proposal,give it time the trurh may surfase yet.

are you kidding? A select few of you would beat that to death too......

Followed you guy's so called professional advice on a BID three days ago, with healthy markups, not a estimate, but a bid, thought I'd step out on the limb a bit, guess what? They got somebody else to do it for less....

 

[satcom]

are you kidding? A select few of you would beat that to death too......

Followed you guy's so called professional advice on a BID three days ago, with healthy markups, not a estimate, but a bid, thought I'd step out on the limb a bit, guess what? They got somebody else to do it for less....

There will always be someone claiming they can do if for less, but just be sure they are bidding the same work, chances are they are less for sure, and you better bet the customer is going to get a lot less, these bid beaters know how to skin a customer and make it look like a good deal.