First year in business and just had my first digruntled customer

[rt66electric]

I just worked for the same little ol lady

I just worked for the same little ol lady

Same story, but, little old man\
- REtail shop
He complained that the power company was responsible that the lights were dimmer in his display case and asked me to provide more lighting.
my solution
replace - 8ft shop light with a 4lamp t-5
replace - track light 65w par spot lights with new WHITE CFL and showed him difference with various bulbs.
display case - Install a 4/32 Watt lamp tandem 8ft fixture w/ bright 5000K bulbs ( also temporaly installed 3500K bulbs to show color varations between bulbs
sales lighting- tried to replace old 8ft bulbs w/ new 8ft daylighters, BUT, that would cost to much

After I was there for two hours he gets upset - I'm taking too long and overcharging him ( I haven't even made out the ticket yet)

He basically tells me "to get the @#$% out his store" and he is going to call the chamber of comerce. (now I know while she was smiling when she recomended the job for me <my pals?> )

as I was making out my ticket he abrutly leaves and tells me to come back later to pick up my check, leaving me with my hand out.

The sales friendly lady/worker applogizes and says" what's the bill? please do over charge him, we do not want him to be vehelment the rest of the day.

My solution ( this guy doesn't hold a candle to some of construction coworkers/GC/old grumps that I have worked for) I' going to mail him a ticket W/ actual invoices for material, leave the labor price blank But include a note " sorry for not giving you the service that you desired and pay what you think is fair"

Its like sand-bagging in a card game. If I put a labor Price, he gets to cuss me. If he dosent pay up -I get to cuss him- I hope I've cornered him. He can't bad-mouth me because I haven't overchared him. He decides his own fate.

I'll find out next week??

FTW- someone had placed ordinary 8ft flourescent single pin bulbs in a H.O. fixture?? and they were working fine>

 

[Mule]

Mule, I'm still wondering - did you notify her you were coming to do the work before you did it?

Sorry I missed your post....

I had told her earlier that I would be back to hook them up.....But she refuses to remember that. No, her big rub is having to build the service in ther first place.

Here's the whole story...

Our local Poco (PSO) has a policy that if you have a "A" base meter, and if you let service laspe for any reason, non payment,or un-occupied and shut off service, to restore power you must hire an electrician to rebuild the service to facilitate the new digital meters. She had a tennant leave and didnt pay the bill and poco shut off the power. This happened in november and it was a cold snap. So she called me and told me they wouldnt hook it up, and she wanted me to do whatever needed to be done so the pipes wouldnt freeze.

I went over and it had two 100 amp "A" base meters with two 100a risers under the eve. So I called poco and told them that they were causing a hardship on her, because to fix it would have to go to a common riser per poco, duo pack meter and go up through the eve. Plus the service drop went over the adjacent driveway and needed to elevated to meet code. They said no dice. So I made an agreement with them to remove the red tag and restore power for two weeks until I could work it in my schedule. So I had a meeting with her and explained all of this, which IMO went right over her head. So she ask me how much? So I said, I'll guess $1600 but reminded her that was an estimate. So she cried around, literly in tears about it and said OK as she didnt know what else to do......So we did the work...Took us all day.....but still needed to do the ac's ..which consisted of local safety switches, whips, and EMT, around 20ft each to respective HOM R/T panels. So I invoiced her for the "to date" work and stated on there the we would do the ac's at a later date when it warmed up as we were swamped with other work . So she paid me the $1456 and also included another invoice which brought the total to just over 2000.....one check.

So Yes I didnt communicate well when we finally decided to get the ac's done as I forgot about it and we were short for hours one afternoon and it hit me, so I wooped in there and we did it and sent her the bill. The rest went down hill.

So when she called and was Sooo upset, she was looking at a check she had written me for $2000 and couldn understand why it needed to cost more, and why didnt I finish my work? So I told her that I didnt remember that it cost $2000 but Id check out the invoices and call her.

So when I corrected her that it was only $1456 she wouldnt back up...

Now she says that I turned her into the City and poco had nothing to do with it. among other things that are just stupid, as she's grabbing straws... Ive politely tried to tell her she was incorrect, but IMO she has to lean on something to justify her actions as she knows Im right....I dont know....

any way its a mess.....she's called me a liar, and a double dipper, a snich, and whatever else it was, and threatened me with court.

So Im done....she can keep the $350, thats not the point....the point is she honestly thinks Im a crook now.....and that frustrates me to no end...but I'll never work for her again

 

[Mule]

Same story, but, little old man\
- REtail shop
He complained that the power company was responsible that the lights were dimmer in his display case and asked me to provide more lighting.
my solution
replace - 8ft shop light with a 4lamp t-5
replace - track light 65w par spot lights with new WHITE CFL and showed him difference with various bulbs.
display case - Install a 4/32 Watt lamp tandem 8ft fixture w/ bright 5000K bulbs ( also temporaly installed 3500K bulbs to show color varations between bulbs
sales lighting- tried to replace old 8ft bulbs w/ new 8ft daylighters, BUT, that would cost to much

After I was there for two hours he gets upset - I'm taking too long and overcharging him ( I haven't even made out the ticket yet)

He basically tells me "to get the @#$% out his store" and he is going to call the chamber of comerce. (now I know while she was smiling when she recomended the job for me <my pals?> )

as I was making out my ticket he abrutly leaves and tells me to come back later to pick up my check, leaving me with my hand out.

The sales friendly lady/worker applogizes and says" what's the bill? please do over charge him, we do not want him to be vehelment the rest of the day.

My solution ( this guy doesn't hold a candle to some of construction coworkers/GC/old grumps that I have worked for) I' going to mail him a ticket W/ actual invoices for material, leave the labor price blank But include a note " sorry for not giving you the service that you desired and pay what you think is fair"

Its like sand-bagging in a card game. If I put a labor Price, he gets to cuss me. If he dosent pay up -I get to cuss him- I hope I've cornered him. He can't bad-mouth me because I haven't overchared him. He decides his own fate.

I'll find out next week??

FTW- someone had placed ordinary 8ft flourescent single pin bulbs in a H.O. fixture?? and they were working fine>

They just dont understand and are tight wads by heart. IMO.....

 

[adamants]

slapped

slapped

the "little old lady" slapped you in the face!
But, if you go around thinking that every customer is going to slap you in the face you"ll never get anywhere!
I used to t&m, now i flatrate wherever possible. I have a standard :Customer authorisation Form" which we use with all our customers. We advise of the minimum charge over the phone, so they know it will cost At Least x amount of dollars. When we arrive at the job, we go through with the customer to understand what They WANT to acheive. We then use our flat rate book and put every job on the Customer Authorisation form, with a price on the bottom, if the customer accepts, they sign the form we complete the work, if they don't accept, we thank them for the opportunity and hand a bill for our minimum charge. Has worked every time so far. We used to have the same issues with customers trying to say we charged them too much etc, now they know the work we are completing, when it has to be payed for, and how much it will cost them before we start the job. We have had Very positive feedback and our customers see this Service as better than all of our competition for these reasons. I am not on the Flat Rate "conversion committee" but consider it, and consider using contracts, and hopefully you will get a lot less "Slaps in the face"
Just my 2 cents, as it works for me.

 

[bradleyelectric]

well that guy was just stupid

were you asleep when you responded to this or do you actually think this is true?

 

[bradleyelectric]

A therapist once told me that it was the communicators responsibilty to assure the understanding. I remembered and practiced the lesson but obviously failed at getting my point across to my (ex) wife.

I was at a seminar yesterday and the presenter tapped a song on a cup and asked for the name of the song. He knew the song but we couldn't figure it out. It wasn't presented in a way we understood.

 

[RJohnsonMasterElectrician]

well had my business for 6 years until last summer had to close up and move due to family issues. In my 6 years (even like in other post I was accused of KNEE JERK REACTIONS) I had only 4 customers who had issues with my billing. I was accused of being to expensive, I evaluated my billing practices and mailed a letter back to the customer stating it all looked fine to me. I actually had one customer who said I was to expensive come back and have me do more work for him.
Its exactly like some one else said you could give that money back to her and she would still complain its to much.

 

[ptonsparky]

Contracts aren't always the answer. I got burned the worst with one and after my lawyer said give up, I did. The customer paid almost no one for the work they had done so I wasn't alone. Only the original lien holder made out because he got the property back with all the improvements.

Almost all of my work is T&M. Works most of the time but not always.

 

[Mule]

Contracts aren't always the answer. I got burned the worst with one and after my lawyer said give up, I did. The customer paid almost no one for the work they had done so I wasn't alone. Only the original lien holder made out because he got the property back with all the improvements.

Almost all of my work is T&M. Works most of the time but not always.

I think ones clients and types of accounts are products of the EC's past practices somewhat. "You are what you eat" meaning if you desire clients that are contractual type clients, just start writting contracts and requiring signatures.

Likewise, if you want resi work, start barking up that tree

If you want hand shake folks as clients, just start shaking peoples hands. And that's my character difference and it doesnt mean that Im a bad business man. I just means those are the types client that I desire.

Contracts doesnt make business tick, its relationships for me......

With all of this said, any of these scenerios will yield a "hickup" once in a while, and THAT was what tripped me with this lady IMO, coupled with my lack of communication skill with this client.

For me, If I detect a character difference with a client, I sometimes will let that customer go to the next EC down the road, as I have the faith that the next client will be better suited for me....

 

[growler]

So she ask me how much? So I said, I'll guess $1600 but reminded her that was an estimate. So she cried around, literly in tears about it and said OK as she didnt know what else to do...

Now we are getting down to it, I can see why the lady is so confused. When you give a homeowner an estimate of $1600 that's all they ever here. This is where she gets the idea that you gave her a verbal contract.

Take this same situation, homeowner needs a new service for a duplex with to A/C condensers hooked up. You give her a written proposal for $2500 for the service to include the A/C units and a note that she is free to get other estimates ( if everyone is so busy that shouldn't be a problem ). If she accepts the proposal then that's great but if not it doesn't affect you in any way. If she is going to cry about it then it's just as easy to wring the tears out of one $2500 check as it is a bunch of small ones. There is no confusion because you have a signed proposal for the job. This gives you the authorization to do the work and bill her for it.

If she or anyone else want to go court that's just fine because you have written authorization. You also have an approved permit and the power is now on. The services have been provided as stated and the customer is being billed for the service, there is no surprise about the bill.

You see how much more simple this is and not confusing at all. If you go to court and you have charged a bunch of small invoices that add up to more than any suggested price it may look like you are a crook. Even the judge may get confused about this story.

Quote it, do it, bill it. :smile:

 

[satcom]

Contracts aren't always the answer. I got burned the worst with one and after my lawyer said give up, I did. The customer paid almost no one for the work they had done so I wasn't alone. Only the original lien holder made out because he got the property back with all the improvements.

Almost all of my work is T&M. Works most of the time but not always.

If I may ask, did those no pay jobs have a permit? , and did the contract call for a decent down payment?

 

[growler]

If you want hand shake folks as clients, just start shaking peoples hands. And that's my character difference and it doesnt mean that Im a bad business man. I just means those are the types client that I desire.

Mule if your great great great grandfather was a rancher in Oklahoma in the mid 19th century and he bought a half dozen head of cattle from a neighbor they would have shaken hands on it but he would still have gotten a bill of sale.

It's a proven fact that all successful ranchers, farmers and even miners keep records.

I think that's why people learned to write in the first place, so they could keep accurate records and wouldn't have to depend on memory.

 

[Mule]

When you give a homeowner an estimate of $1600 that's all they ever here.
:smile:

You are correct.....cant disagree......but estimates are estimates and quotes are quotes....This lady knew that....but IMO she's so tight, her concious wouldnt allow that into her thick skull....

And your right, I dont like dealing T/M with women they just dont get it..They dont have that level of trust .....where the man of the house (most of the time) can judge your character and make that decision.

Guys we tell our customers they can have it either way....T/M or Quote....and they understand if they want a quote they WILL be paying for the time to generate it and the cushion that I have to include to protect myself. This is the reason we get so much T/M. It's about truth....but in this ladies case in this thread.....I'll admit its partially my fault, but it did bring out the realy her, and that I dont like....she's not my kind of folk

 

[Mule]

Mule if your great great great grandfather was a rancher in Oklahoma in the mid 19th century and he bought a half dozen head of cattle from a neighbor they would have shaken hands on it but he would still have gotten a bill of sale.

It's a proven fact that all successful ranchers, farmers and even miners keep records.

I think that's why people learned to write in the first place, so they could keep accurate records and wouldn't have to depend on memory.

Dont kid yourself.....Atlanta and other metropolisis are much different than where I live in alot of cases......Call me old fashioned, if you want....but my customers seem to like it.

My record keeping has nothing to do with this Lady.....I had done a number of jobs with her on a T/M bases. Only becuase of her fears and insecurities did this flare up IMO.

I can tell another story about this lady that would floor you, and it doesnt involve me...but she desersves her privacy due to its severity of circumstances IMO, nor do I want to be responsible for letting it out....But I assure you, she doesnt use her brain at all....

 

[Rewire]

I think ones clients and types of accounts are products of the EC's past practices somewhat. "You are what you eat" meaning if you desire clients that are contractual type clients, just start writting contracts and requiring signatures.

Likewise, if you want resi work, start barking up that tree

If you want hand shake folks as clients, just start shaking peoples hands. And that's my character difference and it doesnt mean that Im a bad business man. I just means those are the types client that I desire.

Contracts doesnt make business tick, its relationships for me......

With all of this said, any of these scenerios will yield a "hickup" once in a while, and THAT was what tripped me with this lady IMO, coupled with my lack of communication skill with this client.

For me, If I detect a character difference with a client, I sometimes will let that customer go to the next EC down the road, as I have the faith that the next client will be better suited for me....

I see your attitude is like the person who wont wear a seat belt because they know of someone that would have been killed if they were not thrown clear of the car,you can point out that seat belts have been proven to save lives but they will here none of it and you cannot show them that people have not been killed because they were wearing one.

reality is this is not a handshake world and the days of Mayberry RFD are long past.We tried the good ole boy handshake and my word thing early in business and we found out that without writen clarity things often were lost in translation.We don't use elaborate forms with alot of leagalese but have a simple job order form so that we can cover the scope of work and the customer has a clear understanding of what is being done.

This has saved us headaces several times when months pass and a customer has a question we can pull the file and send them a copy of the scope and everything is clear and customers are satisfied and I don't end up loosing money.

 

[aline]

In my opinion you look more professional to the customer when you present them with something in writing before you start the work.

I think most customers would prefer to have something in writing before you start the work and would not be offended by it at all.

Even with T&M you can have contract for them to sign agreeing to the hourly rate, the scope of the work, the markup on material and the payment terms. When speaking with the customer it is better to use the term agreement rather than contract. It helps make the customer feel more comfortable about it.

 

[aline]

Words and phrases to consider when speaking with the customer:

Instead of cheaper say less expensive
Instead of worthless say less value
Instead of let me tell you say based on my experiences
Instead of beginner's guide say basic steps
Instead of less dangerous say safer
Instead of it's in great condition say it's been well cared for
Instead of the latest thing say breakthrough idea
Instead of contract say agreement
Instead of mixed colors say blended colors
Instead of I can't tell you say those are guarded secrets
Instead of small piece say bite sized
Instead of loud fashion say it's a bold look
Instead of have lots of say have dozens of or hundreds of
Instead of fix say fine tune
Instead of I think say I'm a firm believer in
Instead of knows all about it say had first hand experience
Instead of best say first class
Instead of painless say pain-free
Instead of original say first of its kind
Instead of your offer is too low say this is a bold offer
Instead of make some time say free up my schedule
Instead of broke say frugal times
Instead of to the floor say it's full length
Instead of rug mats say carpet mats
Instead of not difficult say it's easy
Instead of won't work right say function less
Instead of fully covered say fully insured
Instead of listen to me say take my advice
Instead of I'm sorry say I apologize
Instead of what we sell say what we offer
Instead of can I get your signature say can I get your o.k.
Instead of down payment say initial investment

 

[aline]

Call me old fashioned, if you want....but my customers seem to like it.

This sounds like you're assuming the customer likes it but you really don't know.

Maybe the customer would prefer something in writing before you start the work but are leaving it up to you since your the professional.

 

[aline]

One time my wife booked a room for our anniversary. She booked it way in advanced and payed cash for the room and did not get a receipt. I didn't know about the room it was going to be a surprise for me.

On the night she had the room booked for she called to see what time we could check in.
They had no record of the room ever being booked and it was not available.

Things that should have happened when the room was booked:

First, she should have used a credit card to book the room. She paid cash because she didn't want me to know about it.

Second, she should have insisted on a receipt showing that the room had been paid for and the date that it was reserved for.

Although it's partly her fault for no getting a receipt and and a comfirmation in writing, I put most of the blame on the hotel. They should have insisted and made sure she received these things. After all they are the professionals that do this type of thing on a daily basis.

Luckily they refunded her the money even though she had no proof that the transaction ever occured and the hotel had no record of it.

It's possible the employee booking the room simply pocketed the cash without ever booking the room.

 

[satcom]

In my opinion you look more professional to the customer when you present them with something in writing before you start the work.

I think most customers would prefer to have something in writing before you start the work and would not be offended by it at all.

Even with T&M you can have contract for them to sign agreeing to the hourly rate, the scope of the work, the markup on material and the payment terms. When speaking with the customer it is better to use the term agreement rather than contract. It helps make the customer feel more comfortable about it.

We will use T&M on some long term commercial accounts, and that all have a contract in place, before we start the project, this avoids arguments down the road , and prevents billing delays.