First year in business and just had my first digruntled customer

[electricalperson]

I remeber this story: Two friends were hunting and one is accidentally shot ,his buddy in a panic calls 911 and tells the operator that he has accidentally shot his buddy and he thinks he is dead. The operator tells the man to calm down and to go check his buddy and make sure he is dead, their is silence on the phone then a load "BANG" and the guy comes back on and says to the operator he's dead now.

well that guy was just stupid

 

[JohnJ0906]

This landlord/customer called us last november and poco had denied service to a duplex she had, due to "change out policy" with old "A" base meters. The sructure was un-occupied and she was worried that the pipes would freeze. We build her a new service with two meters and a common riser, and charged her $1486. We then told her, and stated it on the invoice that we were busy and would come back at a later date and hook up her a/c condensers. The invoice was T/M and showed hours worked and material used and the prices. So the other day, it was getting warmer, and I decided we better get over there and get them hooked up, and we did. Sent her the invoice for $350....two condensers.

Mule, did you call her in advance and let her know you were going to do this work?

Perhaps part of the problem is the fact she received an unexpected bill.

This might have been resolved easier if she knew there would be a bill before you did the work.

 

[Rewire]

This landlord/customer called us last november and poco had denied service to a duplex she had, due to "change out policy" with old "A" base meters. The sructure was un-occupied and she was worried that the pipes would freeze. We build her a new service with two meters and a common riser, and charged her $1486. We then told her, and stated it on the invoice that we were busy and would come back at a later date and hook up her a/c condensers.

did you state on the invoice that this work would be billed extra? This could be unclear to someone and they could read it as if you were billing them and would do the work when you had avaiable time

The invoice was T/M and showed hours worked and material used and the prices. So the other day, it was getting warmer, and I decided we better get over there and get them hooked up, and we did. Sent her the invoice for $350....two condensers.

was this invoice showing T&M? It sounds like after four months she was not expecting a bill,I would have made contact with her just to remind her that the work still needed done.

 

[220/221]

I would have made contact with her just to remind her that the work still needed done.

Communication ?

 

[Rewire]

Communication ?

I remember a management class I attended and the speaker said you have the comunicator and then you have the comunicatee and the distance beween them is called understanding

 

[220/221]

A therapist once told me that it was the communicators responsibilty to assure the understanding. I remembered and practiced the lesson but obviously failed at getting my point across to my (ex) wife.

 

[electricalperson]

some people are just impossible to make happy. we had our shares of angry customers call the shop and complain. some customers think the bill is too high and just flat out wont pay it. hopefully when im in business that wont happen. ill just have to get the legbreakers on the payroll

 

[Fulthrotl]

A therapist once told me that it was the communicators responsibilty to assure the understanding. I remembered and practiced the lesson but obviously failed at getting my point across to my (ex) wife.

not necessarily. if you only have one ex wife, that is standard issue for most
electricians... now, if you have 3 or 4 ex wives, i'd say you might be having a
failure to communicate.

my wife's upper level VP put it this way... she's a woman, by the way....

"husbands are like waffles.. the first one usually doesn't turn out all that well,
and just seasons the waffle iron... now, if you have three or four burned
waffles, you may need to take a look at that..."

 

[Rewire]

not necessarily. if you only have one ex wife, that is standard issue for most
electricians... now, if you have 3 or 4 ex wives, i'd say you might be having a
failure to communicate.

my wife's upper level VP put it this way... she's a woman, by the way....

"husbands are like waffles.. the first one usually doesn't turn out all that well,
and just seasons the waffle iron... now, if you have three or four burned
waffles, you may need to take a look at that..."

if you been married three times maybe its you...

 

[jumper]

Anything in writing will be easier to understand.....except the NEC.

That's good.

 

[Mule]

Well the email flames got pretty high, She's called me everything every thing in the book, the latest is she's now blaming me for being a snich to the inspector and causing this work to be done in the first place. I tried to tell her that POCO controls this "A" base change out policy,not the city, she says she called and Im a lier.......Ive tried to be civil, but it aint work'n...... I just told her take a deep breath and lets go on about our seperate ways and let is lay. Then I blocked her email address.....

Facts

These type clients are not very frequent, but they are out there.

My verbage on my invoice about doing the ac's later was a bit vauge, and she used it to hang me. The verbage said "AC's to he hooked up at a later date" I asked her, "the invoice shows the actual labor hours and dates, how would I pre-charge for work done at a later date?" She refuses to accept that.

I did wait too long to hook the ac's.....first portion of the work was in Nov and I finished up the ac's a week or so back. Clearly my bad

What did I learn?

Dealing with a lady(or should I say a non-technical person), takes a whole different set of communication.

When the out of pocket reaches a certain point, then "YES" a written proposal is a good idea. Question is, what's the dollar amount?

Dont get strung out on too many jobs where you cant get them finished in a timely manner.

Do I hear a AMEN?

 

[480sparky]

......When the out of pocket reaches a certain point, then "YES" a written proposal is a good idea. Question is, what's the dollar amount?
......

Whatever amount you're willing to bear the loss of.

 

[Sparky555]

Well the email flames got pretty high, She's called me everything every thing in the book, the latest is she's now blaming me for being a snich to the inspector and causing this work to be done in the first place. I tried to tell her that POCO controls this "A" base change out policy,not the city, she says she called and Im a lier.......Ive tried to be civil, but it aint work'n...... I just told her take a deep breath and lets go on about our seperate ways and let is lay. Then I blocked her email address....

A free tip about customer service...less is more.

"I'm very sorry for your inconvenience, what can I do to make it right?"

You stand to lose a LOT more than $350 on this one for trying to win a fight.

 

[Mule]

Whatever amount you're willing to bear the loss of.

Ok, I just turned in a "estimate" NOT a "Quote" for a kitchen remod. So it clearly states that this is a Time and Material Job and then defines T/M. Then it gives a long estimate (with obstacles) of $6000 and a short estimate( every thing going slick) of $5000. And it states that the customer will be invoiced at the completion of the rough in stage and then again and the completion of trim out stage and ivoices are to be paid not to exceed 30 days. It shows the hourly rate and material markup, and re-states this is only a estimate . It also says that they can run us off the job at any time and all materials to that date and labor to that date are imediately due. Pretty simple to me....He called me three days later and said I had the job........

So if I continue to do T/M which I like, what do i need to do differently?

 

[480sparky]

..........So if I continue to do T/M which I like, what do i need to do differently?

If you're asking me specifically, you're asking the wrong person. I rarely swim in the T&M end of the pool.

I prefer a set price with a clause regarding unforseen circumstances.

 

[B4T]

Problems with T&M:

1) did he really use all that wire for my job

2) he seems to working really slow

3) am I paying for that lunch?

4) who is paying for traveling time

This is why I give am itemized estimate for a job. Each item is spelled out and I still see no reason to use T&M. IMO you start out on the wrong foot.

Would you hire a carpenter to build you a new house using T&M???

 

[220/221]

what do i need to do differently?

Lose the estimate and make it a quote.

Simple is good. Less is more. Don't breakdown any more than you have to.

List the specifics like number of receps, lights and circuits to be added or relocated and the straight cost do do so.

You are creating more work for yourself. More work and more potential problems.

 

[Mule]

I rarely swim in the T&M end of the pool.

Maybe I'll learn to swim in deeper water some day.... but for now I prefer having my feet on something solid. As I do, more reputisious type jobs, my estimating skills will be better, but for now, It's T/M and I'll work like a dog for them and get paid for every hour and all of the material...

Except for this kind lady I ran into....

But honestly, for the most part, Im getting better at it, and more confident in my approach. You guys are pounding it into my head..:smile:

 

[480sparky]

Problems with T&M:

1) did he really use all that wire for my job

A: most HOs don't know how much it truly takes. I've seen folks think a 250' roll is plenty for an entire house.

2) he seems to working really slow

A: We always seem slow to the HO.

3) am I paying for that lunch?

A: I sure hope so. It's the reason I'm in business. But I'm off the clock when I eat it.

4) who is paying for traveling time

A: The HO will always refuse to pay travel time. so I just increase my hourly rate accordingly.

Another problem with T&M is the customer always thinks the T portion should only cover my hourly pay, and not all the other expenses of being in business. If I charge $100 an hour, they automatically think it's $85 too high.

 

[iwire]

Problems with T&M:

1) did he really use all that wire for my job

2) he seems to working really slow

3) am I paying for that lunch?

4) who is paying for traveling time

This is why I give am itemized estimate for a job. Each item is spelled out and I still see no reason to use T&M. IMO you start out on the wrong foot.

Would you hire a carpenter to build you a new house using T&M???

We do a ton of T&M, but for commercial customers, sometimes just 'T' and they supply the materials.

We had 1 to 3 guys at one customers factory daily for about five years. Would you turn down that steady income?