First year in business and just had my first digruntled customer

[ohm]

This is spot on.

I hate to admit it but you're correct. Days of a handshake are gone.

I made up a very simple "Work Authorization" form stating the things you would talk about before the handshake.

I explain it just allows me to start work, but it would go a long way to win in court. I've used it for years and have never had a problem with it.

 

[satcom]

Doing it your own way is fine ,but insulting people because they don't do it your way is not.

That is a general statement, not directed to anyone it was presented at a meeting of contractors, that complained about having to produce written estimates, they were advised to learn estimating. we will never learn on this or qany site if we take everything personal.

 

[CopperTone]

only have been in business for 6 years and am now going through court proceedings with the only guy to ever not pay. We even have a signed contract and he still didn't pay - apparently this guy runs around screwing everyone - he even defaulted in court and still hasn't paid us. we have another court date in 2 weeks - a payment hearing - you learn alot about the court system the hard way.

Not all signed contracts will gaurantee you get paid but it certainly helps a lot in court. anything over a few hours of work I get a signed agreement. Get screwed just once and you wont feel bad about asking for a signature - an honest person will have no problem signing it either.
Although I did a job for 20k for a police dept - didn't get a signed contract - got paid right away. Its pretty safe bet though with a municipality.

I did however just get paid last week for a different job we did 1 1/2 years ago - family friend - some friend.

 

[growler]

Mule,

We've all had one and I think most of us handled it the same way that you did.

Are you kidding you should never handle things the way the Mule did. Mule lives in a very small town to start with and one old lady that thinks someone she trusted is trying to take advantage of her can spread the word at the beauty parlor and get the Mule branded as the local pariah.

Never get emotional with a woman they are better with emotions than we men will ever be. Now that he's told her to never call she has to prove that she was in the right ( you are married, right ). The only way to deal with a woman is to agree with her. Let her know that you can see where she may have gotten the impression that the work was covered by the original invoice. Then present your case in a very calm manner showing that the check was in fact for two seperate jobs. This should be easy to do if the work was properly documented.

I would let her know that she does owe me the money but that our friendship is worth more than $350 so if she wants to keep it that's Ok and that I would never think of taking a long time friend to court.

That's how you sucker an old lady. You have to make them feel guilty.

 

[charlietuna]

Today, 11:47 AM
satcom
Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,056



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky
Why T&M? Give her a price, and leave the hours and material out of the equation.





Welcome the the wonderful world of ECing.


Your a Electrical Contractor, not a day laborer, so estimate the price and, they either accept it, or reject it.

Time and material = I don't know how to estimate a job, so I will work like a day worker and add on the material, and hope I make some money.

Or you can look at another way---- "I have a terrible reputation for shoddy work and high prices and ripping off people"?????

There are plenty of jobs that you make a much better profit by contract work and there are plenty of jobs that you cannot bid a "fair price" to the customer to include every possible problem that you "might" incounter??? In my business the customer is the king! Being the "king" doesn't mean i do day work without making a decent profit. Call it whatever you like, it all boils down to making a living !!! It seems a whole lot easier to build yourself a good solid customer base that pays their bills on time and doesn't shop your price -- just calls you and says come do the job-however you bill me is fine!!! There are only two things that get you in that position--reputation and trust !

 

[satcom]

Aline, said it best, what I see is the consumer laws, attempt to protect the consumer, but they do but a burden on the contractors, as I tried to note, many contractors use T&M because they are not able to estimate, but there are also many that are allowed to use T&M where they are in a state that does not have strict consumer laws, even if you use T&M you need a written contract to list what you are going to provide, so the customer is aware and not supprised, many use a not to exceed clause, and rough estimate the hours needed, others shoot from the hip, learning how to estimate is a win situation for everyone, how much you charge, or how much you make is not the real issue, but however you do it have it in writing.

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

an honest person will have no problem signing it either.

Well said.

 

[Dnkldorf]

That's how you sucker an old lady.

You don't need to sucker people to make a living.

I'll leave it at that, or I'll be banned instantly.

 

[480sparky]

You don't need to sucker people to make a living.

I'll leave it at that, or I'll be banned instantly.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
------David Hannum, spoken in reference to P.T. Barnum's part in the Cardiff Giant hoax.

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

I truly believe he is referring to the psychological aspect of dealing with the customer in question, not all old ladies.

 

[weressl]

something i've learned in dealing with people is this... they are looking at
you thru a filter made up of their own fears. sorry vern, it isn't all about you.

you are not the center of her world. her fears are the center of her world.
she is projecting her fears onto everyone and everything she interacts with.

don't take it personally. it isn't personal. she treats everyone like this.

I think you nailed it.

 

[satcom]

I think you nailed it.

Yes he did! I have been involved in the consumer affairs issues for many years, and they are there to protect the consumer, not the contractor, so don't take all the complaints to heart, just try to do the best you can, and treat everyone as you would like to be treated, and usually good things will follow.

 

[growler]

You don't need to sucker people to make a living.

I'll leave it at that, or I'll be banned instantly.

No one is talking about suckering the old lady out of her money ( mule is willing to let that go and so would I ) only the argument. It's much more beneficial to leave her thinking she is in the wrong rather than with a challenge to prove she is right.

I do wish you would take off that Halo it tends to blind us mere mortals.

 

[Dnkldorf]

I do wish you would take off that Halo it tends to blind us mere mortals.

Buy some cheap sunglasses, and some tanning lotion.

Or, just ignore me.

I'll be headed out soon, only to appear later in a couple years, if I don't get banned first.

 

[K8MHZ]

I had done a job for a customer that even at a couple hundred bucks would have been a sub standard paying job. This was for a car lot and I had done work for them before. I wrote the bill for 94 bucks because I knew how the dealer was about bills over 100 bucks. What happened was I stayed late to make the repair and put more time in it than I thought and because of the hours I did not get approval for a bill over 100 bucks. When he complained that the price was too high I told him to write me a check for whatever he thought the job was worth under the condition that if the check was less than 94 bucks he was to agree to never call me again.

He wrote me a 94 dollar check, called me for more work down the road and never again questioned my pricing.

 

[jrannis]

I had done a job for a customer that even at a couple hundred bucks would have been a sub standard paying job. This was for a car lot and I had done work for them before. I wrote the bill for 94 bucks because I knew how the dealer was about bills over 100 bucks. What happened was I stayed late to make the repair and put more time in it than I thought and because of the hours I did not get approval for a bill over 100 bucks. When he complained that the price was too high I told him to write me a check for whatever he thought the job was worth under the condition that if the check was less than 94 bucks he was to agree to never call me again.

He wrote me a 94 dollar check, called me for more work down the road and never again questioned my pricing.

Thanks,
I cant wait to use that one. Really.:grin:

 

[jrannis]

only have been in business for 6 years and am now going through court proceedings with the only guy to ever not pay. We even have a signed contract and he still didn't pay - apparently this guy runs around screwing everyone - he even defaulted in court and still hasn't paid us. we have another court date in 2 weeks - a payment hearing - you learn alot about the court system the hard way.

Not all signed contracts will gaurantee you get paid but it certainly helps a lot in court. anything over a few hours of work I get a signed agreement. Get screwed just once and you wont feel bad about asking for a signature - an honest person will have no problem signing it either.
Although I did a job for 20k for a police dept - didn't get a signed contract - got paid right away. Its pretty safe bet though with a municipality.

I did however just get paid last week for a different job we did 1 1/2 years ago - family friend - some friend.

I don't know about your state but, we have some good lien laws here in Florida. If I get the feeling that I am not going to get paid, I have 45 days from the last time I worked on the job to file my paperwork.
I have had two suppliers help me get paid on some slow jobs by using that system.

 

[220/221]

when my word and a handshake is good enough......

Words are often misinterpeted and a whole lot of people earn a good living because of it.

Don't be upset if someone misunderstands your words. It happens..... especially with old people.

Communication is the key. Anything in writing will be easier to understand.....except the NEC.

 

[220/221]

Never get emotional with a woman they are better with emotions than we men will ever be. Now that he's told her to never call she has to prove that she was in the right ( you are married, right ). The only way to deal with a woman is to agree with her. Let her know that you can see where she may have gotten the impression that the work was covered by the original invoice. Then present your case in a very calm manner showing that the check was in fact for two seperate jobs. This should be easy to do if the work was properly documented.

I would let her know that she does owe me the money but that our friendship is worth more than $350 so if she wants to keep it that's Ok and that I would never think of taking a long time friend to court.

What he said ^

 

[Rewire]

Communication is the key.

I remeber this story: Two friends were hunting and one is accidentally shot ,his buddy in a panic calls 911 and tells the operator that he has accidentally shot his buddy and he thinks he is dead. The operator tells the man to calm down and to go check his buddy and make sure he is dead, their is silence on the phone then a load "BANG" and the guy comes back on and says to the operator he's dead now.