Fused disconnect required

[jumper]

Are we discussing the 30’ foot rule or the OCPD in the remote disco?

My guess for the 30’ was that a max distance was needed for common sense and that seemed good.

 

[jumper]

I know it does but the closes disconnect to the trailer that sees the total load is the outside disconnect.
out side AC units ,water pumps, out door sheds. all the site stuff.

i know it is off subject, but i cant tell you how many times the outside fuse blows before the main in the home

Not off subject at all.

Those are fine reasons, but not the primary reason for the disco. The disco is for emergency cut off of power to the trailor itself. More than 30’ feet was prolly just chosen as a good number for safety.

 

[jumper]

You keep editing! Tell me when you finished.

 

[david]

You keep editing! Tell me when you finished.

i never could spell very well

 

[david]

Not off subject at all.

Those are fine reasons, but not the primary reason for the disco. The disco is for emergency cut off of power to the trailor itself. More than 30’ feet was prolly just chosen as a good number for safety.

yes a little shorter than the in site rule and just outside the reach of the current rec rule for AC units

 

[jumper]

I know it does but the closes disconnect to the trailer that sees the total load is the outside disconnect.
out side AC units ,water pumps, out door sheds. all the site stuff.

i know it is off subject, but i cant tell you how many times the outside fuse blows before the main in the home

also in mobile home parks the service usually/ sometimes/ maybe is park equipment and the local disconnect is usually the tenants responsibility

a lot of park managers lock the service disconnect with a pad lock that the tenant does not have access to and must make a phone call to the manager if that trips.

the local disconnect is lockable and is left up to the tenant to lock or not to lock

All valid reasons for design and easy operation, no argument.

My problem is with the SUSE rating. Especially if the scenario is one like OP.

If no panel was needed outside and a simple disco was needed than SUSE rated equipment needs to used with an OCPD, integral or adjacent, or it would entail great expense, screwy bonding, and most likely an EE stamp. Ridiculous

 

[david]

Not off subject at all.

Those are fine reasons, but not the primary reason for the disco. The disco is for emergency cut off of power to the trailor itself. More than 30’ feet was prolly just chosen as a good number for safety.

I really think it had to do with the max length the 40 0r 50 amp cord was allowed to be when the supply to a mobile home was through a REC. and mobile home supply cord.

 

[david]

All valid reasons for design and easy operation, no argument.

My problem is with the SUSE rating. Especially if the scenario is one like OP.

If no panel was needed outside and a simple disco was needed than SUSE rated equipment needs to used with an OCPD, integral or adjacent, or it would entail great expense, screwy bonding, and most likely an EE stamp. Ridiculous

with the changes to 225 post 2008 nec cant argue that

 

[jumper]

I really think it had to do with the max length the 40 0r 50 amp cord was allowed to be when the supply to a mobile home was through a REC. and mobile home supply cord.

Makes sense.

 

[jumper]

with the changes to 225 post 2008 nec cant argue that

Dennis is the one who wrote that proposal for the change.

Best that could happen now is 2023. Date for 2020 submitting is past IIRC.

 

[kwired]

yes a little shorter than the in site rule and just outside the reach of the current rec rule for AC units

The mobile home disconnecting means located within 30 feet has been around for a long time.

The rule for receptacle near A/C equipment is not as old of a rule, I do recall they required a receptacle if on a rooftop though, not sure how long that rule was in existence.

 

[david]

The mobile home disconnecting means located within 30 feet has been around for a long time.

The rule for receptacle near A/C equipment is not as old of a rule, I do recall they required a receptacle if on a rooftop though, not sure how long that rule was in existence.

yes and the in site rule and the AC rule both were 50 ft in the past, SO the 30 ft rule i think as said had to do with the mobile home supply cord.

i personally for the reason i stated like that the outside local disconnect has fuses / or breakers i hope they do not change the rule and allow non service rated disconnects.

 

[kwired]

yes and the in site rule and the AC rule both were 50 ft in the past, SO the 30 ft rule i think as said had to do with the mobile home supply cord.

i personally for the reason i stated like that the outside local disconnect has fuses / or breakers i hope they do not change the rule and allow non service rated disconnects.

Didn't they recently remove long time SUSE requirement for the main disconnect at separate structures in art 225?

Maybe same reasons they allowed that can apply to mobile homes, it just hasn't been brought up yet?

 

[david]

Didn't they recently remove long time SUSE requirement for the main disconnect at separate structures in art 225?

Maybe same reasons they allowed that can apply to mobile homes, it just hasn't been brought up yet?

yes and that may happen in the future, but for all the reason starting in post # 99 i hope it does not.

 

[kwired]

All valid reasons for design and easy operation, no argument.

My problem is with the SUSE rating. Especially if the scenario is one like OP.

If no panel was needed outside and a simple disco was needed than SUSE rated equipment needs to used with an OCPD, integral or adjacent, or it would entail great expense, screwy bonding, and most likely an EE stamp. Ridiculous

You lost me with this, especially "screwy bonding" even though it is required to be SUSE, that doesn't change the fact you don't install bonding jumper if it is feeder supplied. SUSE just means it has provisions to bond the neutral when necessary not that you have to bond it in all installations.

You can run into equipment that is "suitable ony for use as service equipment". Such items have neutral permanently bonded to the enclosure and therefore can not be used for other then service equipment. I mostly see this with "pump panels".

 

[ggunn]

The OCPD at the outside disco does nothing in this situation.

Why the remote disco has to be SUSE rated is silly.

The requirement for the disco makes sense, but the SUSE rating is not needed.

225.36 for disconnecting means for outside feeders to another building used to have the similar requirements. Now you only need a SUSE rated disco for existing feeders that have no EGC.

550.32 needs to fixed.

Sooo... What you are saying that there is no reason for the OCPD at the trailer end of the feeder other than it's just in the code?

 

[jumper]

Sooo... What you are saying that there is no reason for the OCPD at the trailer end of the feeder other than it's just in the code?

Yes.

 

[jumper]

You lost me with this, especially "screwy bonding" even though it is required to be SUSE, that doesn't change the fact you don't install bonding jumper if it is feeder supplied. SUSE just means it has provisions to bond the neutral when necessary not that you have to bond it in all installations.

You can run into equipment that is "suitable ony for use as service equipment". Such items have neutral permanently bonded to the enclosure and therefore can not be used for other then service equipment. I mostly see this with "pump panels".

I am not chasing this rabbit down a hole.

Under current rules, I would simply use a SUSE rated 8 circuit 3R MB panel with feed through lugs at bottom as I have done it the past. The same one I use for many temp services.

 

[kwired]

I am not chasing this rabbit down a hole.

Under current rules, I would simply use a SUSE rated 8 circuit 3R MB panel with feed through lugs at bottom as I have done it the past. The same one I use for many temp services.

But if it is feeder supplied, you wouldn't use it as service equipment is basically what my point was. Meaning you wouldn't install the bonding screw in the neutral and you would install additional equipment grounding bar if it didn't already have one. Grounding electrode would land on the EGC bar and not the neutral.

If you did install SUSE single breaker enclosure or a safety switch - same thing, you wouldn't install bonding jumper in the neutral.

You wouldn't install a non fused disconnect - unless you did find one that is SUSE and you were able to meet any additional requirements that went with that SUSE rating.

 

[GoldDigger]

...
...
You can run into equipment that is "suitable ony for use as service equipment". Such items have neutral permanently bonded to the enclosure and therefore can not be used for other then service equipment. I mostly see this with "pump panels".

I thought that in at least some SOUSE panels all you had to do to allow non-service use was to add an insulated neutral bar, but I guess some may not have that accessory or have the space for it.



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk