Fused disconnect required

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kwired said:
But if it is feeder supplied, you wouldn't use it as service equipment is basically what my point was. Meaning you wouldn't install the bonding screw in the neutral and you would install additional equipment grounding bar if it didn't already have one. Grounding electrode would land on the EGC bar and not the neutral.

If you did install SUSE single breaker enclosure or a safety switch - same thing, you wouldn't install bonding jumper in the neutral.

You wouldn't install a non fused disconnect - unless you did find one that is SUSE and you were able to meet any additional requirements that went with that SUSE rating.
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Buy a non fused disconnect and a field added neutral kit and ground bar, find a bonding jumper laying around somewhere, and leave it in a bag in the bottom of the disconnect and call it good.

JAP>
 
GoldDigger said:
I thought that in at least some SOUSE panels all you had to do to allow non-service use was to add an insulated neutral bar, but I guess some may not have that accessory or have the space for it.



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I have used pump panels for non service applications, but since they are supplying three phase motors and the control voltage is typically taken from the ungrounded supply conductors in these - there is no neutral to be concerned about, land EGC's on that bus bolted to the enclosure.

jap said:
Buy a non fused disconnect and a field added neutral kit and ground bar, find a bonding jumper laying around somewhere, and leave it in a bag in the bottom of the disconnect and call it good.

JAP>
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If not already marked as SUSE, that don't necessarily make it SUSE.
 
The service disconnecting means must be identified as suitable for use as service equipment [230.66]. This means the service disconnecting means is supplied with a main bonding jumper so that a neutral-to-case connection can be made, as required in 250.24(C) and 250.142(A).



JAP>
 
Jap

Lemme tell ya,

No inspector is gonna pass it.
No EE is gonna stamp it.
No customer is gonna pay for it.
No EC is gonna want to try it.

What is maybe theoretically possible if we distort the space time continuium ain’t gonna work on earth.:D

Unless 550.32 gets changed to similar language like 223.36, we are pretty much stuck doing it like we always have. SUSE rated fused/breaker disco or small panel.
 
jumper said:
Jap

Lemme tell ya,

No inspector is gonna pass it.
No EE is gonna stamp it.
No customer is gonna pay for it.
No EC is gonna want to try it.

What is maybe theoretically possible if we distort the space time continuium ain’t gonna work on earth.:D

Unless 550.32 gets changed to similar language like 223.36, we are pretty much stuck doing it like we always have. SUSE rated fused/breaker disco or small panel.
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In the real world llemme tell ya, since its a feeder and not a new service there's not going to be no inspector, doubtful an EE would even be envolved, the customer could care less, and I'd bet for many SUSE is not even in their vocabulary. :)

JAP>
 
But go ahead and use your SUSE disconnect that your not actually going to use as service entrance unless you violate the code using as such. :)


JAP>
 
It mostly boils down to that section needs a clause in for certain circumstances when your talking about a feeder instead of a service doesn't it?

It's like forcing someone to buy a 4 wheel drive truck but never allowing them to use the 4 wheel drive option for as long as they own it.

JAP>
 
jap said:
It mostly boils down to that section needs a clause in for certain circumstances when your talking about a feeder instead of a service doesn't it?

It's like forcing someone to buy a 4 wheel drive truck but never allowing them to use the 4 wheel drive option for as long as they own it.

JAP>
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Yes.

I understand the disconnecting reason, just not the SUSE condition for this application.

The disco OCPD in the middle does nothing when it is just basically a fused switch.

Feeder is protected at the source.

Trailor interior panel is already protected by that and also the interior panel has a MB.

Bloody ridiculous.
 
jap said:
It mostly boils down to that section needs a clause in for certain circumstances when your talking about a feeder instead of a service doesn't it?

It's like forcing someone to buy a 4 wheel drive truck but never allowing them to use the 4 wheel drive option for as long as they own it.

JAP>
Click to expand...

jumper said:
Yes.

I understand the disconnecting reason, just not the SUSE condition for this application.

The disco OCPD in the middle does nothing when it is just basically a fused switch.

Feeder is protected at the source.

Trailor interior panel is already protected by that and also the interior panel has a MB.

Bloody ridiculous.
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Made no sense with for the main disconnect at separate structure per art 225 part II either, but was worded that way for years. I often thought it may be for just in case the thing would someday get converted to service equipment - which sometimes does happen, but don't really know for certain why they required it that way.

Of course we used to be able to use only a grounded conductor and bond it at that first disconnect just like we did for services - maybe made a little more sense before they made us run an EGC in every installation.
 
kwired said:
Made no sense with for the main disconnect at separate structure per art 225 part II either, but was worded that way for years. I often thought it may be for just in case the thing would someday get converted to service equipment - which sometimes does happen, but don't really know for certain why they required it that way.

Of course we used to be able to use only a grounded conductor and bond it at that first disconnect just like we did for services - maybe made a little more sense before they made us run an EGC in every installation.
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Not sure if you know this,

225.36 still requires a SUSE rated disconnecting means for an existing install under the old feeder rules. So, you would need to use one if replacing one for a feeder with no EGC.
 
jumper said:
Not sure if you know this,

225.36 still requires a SUSE rated disconnecting means for an existing install under the old feeder rules. So, you would need to use one if replacing one for a feeder with no EGC.
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Wasn't necessarily aware of it, but 99.9999% of time would have used something rated SUSE anyway.
 
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