GEC placement

[wc86]

Hello all I'm a bit of a novice at doing residential work but I'm looking to do a 200a service upgrade for a 2-family house(see attached photo). In this example would I be able to tie the GECs in the meter enclosure? I have not been able to source any 3xmeter/main combo units from any supply houses around me. I spoke with another electrician that said even though the POCO(national grid) doesn't allow GECs in the meter enclosure the NEC would overwrite that. Any other input/advise would be appreciated.

 

[augie47]

POCO can have their own restrictions and IF they say no GEC in the meter socket you have to follow their rules.
(AFIK those restrictions vary by POCO)
You can attached ahead of their sockets or from your disconnects (such as from a wireway) or from each of your disconnects.

 

[roger]

The meter(s) are the most logical place for the GEC but some ignorant POCO's do in fact prohibit it

 

[tom baker]

The meter(s) are the most logical place for the GEC but some ignorant POCO's do in fact prohibit it

And in WA I have never seen a meter socket with a lug for the GEC, and our state electrical rules do not allow as the connection is not accessible once the meter is sealed

 

[wc86]

POCO can have their own restrictions and IF they say no GEC in the meter socket you have to follow their rules.
(AFIK those restrictions vary by POCO)
You can attached ahead of their sockets or from your disconnects (such as from a wireway) or from each of your disconnects.

1.Attach ahead of meters-

• Would this just be a junction box above the meters?
• Would i need to connect via a mounted ground bar or in insulated splices?
• The GEC would just be terminated here and not continue on correct?

2. What do you mean from each of my disconnects? Connect a pvc conduit between all disconnects and daisychain through with the GEC?

 

[augie47]

1.Attach ahead of meters-

• Would this just be a junction box above the meters?
• Would i need to connect via a mounted ground bar or in insulated splices?
• The GEC would just be terminated here and not continue on correct?

2. What do you mean from each of my disconnects? Connect a pvc conduit between all disconnects and daisychain through with the GEC?

I read into your initial post that you might be using 3 separate meter sockets. Often this arrangement includes a splice in the wirewy ahead of the sockets, IF you do that you can bring the GEC from that wireway
If you elect to come from each disconnect, a separate GEC to the electrodes or a common electrode with taps to each disconnect,

 

[wc86]

I read into your initial post that you might be using 3 separate meter sockets. Often this arrangement includes a splice in the wirewy ahead of the sockets, IF you do that you can bring the GEC from that wireway
If you elect to come from each disconnect, a separate GEC to the electrodes or a common electrode with taps to each disconnect,

Isnt the GEC suppose to be continuous and unbroken?

 

[augie47]

One example

The "taps" are nit a splice and thus allowed.

 

[roger]

And in WA I have never seen a meter socket with a lug for the GEC, and our state electrical rules do not allow as the connection is not accessible once the meter is sealed

I have never seen a meter can where the neutral is not already bonded with provisions for the GEC connection.
With that said, what does your state rules say about the other terminations in a meter enclosure; are they impervious to any problems?
I know we all hate being called in the middle of the night during a blizzard to fix a GEC connection but the other line load conductors would be a much bigger problem.

 

[Little Bill]

I have never seen a meter can where the neutral is not already bonded with provisions for the GEC connection.
With that said, what does your state rules say about the other terminations in a meter enclosure; are they impervious to any problems?
I know we all hate being called in the middle of the night during a blizzard to fix a GEC connection but the other line load conductors would be a much bigger problem.

I deal with five POCOs. All but one of them require the GEC to land in the meter base. The one that doesn't, requires the GEC to be ran up to the weatherhead and they splice it onto the neutral. Funny thing is, on underground installs, they allow the GEC in the meter base. Go figure that!

 

[wc86]

Do all of these variations look NEC code compliant?

 

[augie47]

IMO Version 1 would be compliant IF you did not go thru the panel and IF the GEC was sized properly for all electrodes.
With Version 2, again youe GEC should not go into other enclosures.
IF you removed one enclosure it should not interrupt the path on the others,
Look at Post #8

 

[wc86]

IMO Version 1 would be compliant IF you did not go thru the panel and IF the GEC was sized properly for all electrodes.
With Version 2, again youe GEC should not go into other enclosures.
IF you removed one enclosure it should not interrupt the path on the others,
Look at Post #8

Sorry I'm really trying to keep the inspector and POCO happy without building an electric room on the customer's wall. Is there a way to achieve this without a busbar or wire trough? Just out of curiosity, what code article would prohibit you from running through the individual breaker enclosures?

 

[jaggedben]

Do all of these variations look NEC code compliant?

In my opinion they are all questionable as they all provide parallel paths for neutral current in a manner that isn't explicitly permitted by the NEC. #1 is perhaps the least problematic but still questionable.

See 250.64(D) for details of what is permitted.

Essentially there are only two ways to do it right:
1) A single connection in an enclosure that handles the entire service. In this case the meter bank.
2) Connections to each service disconnect, all of which leave their enclosures and meet outside the enclosures either on their way to the electrodes or at the electrodes. e.g. they are all tapped to a single GEC which then branches out to the electrodes, or they each have a GEC to an electrode, and then all the electrodes are bonded to each other directly. With this method, use the type of bonding bridge that is attached to the wall, not the type you're showing that goes in a panel knockout.

The business of passing bonding jumpers from one disconnect enclosure through the others is not a method that the NEC says is permitted.

 

[electrofelon]

. I spoke with another electrician that said even though the POCO(national grid) doesn't allow GECs in the meter enclosure....

I deal with five POCOs. All but one of them require the GEC to land in the meter base. The one that doesn't, requires the GEC to be ran up to the weatherhead and they splice it onto the neutral. Funny thing is, on underground installs, they allow the GEC in the meter base. Go figure that!

I checked national grid's spec book. It does say no GEC in a meter base, but they also require a meter base only, on a pedestal to have a grounding connection

 

[augie47]

............................................. Just out of curiosity, what code article would prohibit you from running through the individual breaker enclosures?

250.64(D)

 

[infinity]

Sorry I'm really trying to keep the inspector and POCO happy without building an electric room on the customer's wall. Is there a way to achieve this without a busbar or wire trough? Just

Just run a single GEC and split bolt from the GEC to each individual service disconnect as shown in post #8.

 

[wc86]

Just run a single GEC and split bolt from the GEC to each individual service disconnect as shown in post #8.

I dont mind doing this but can I do it inside of each disconnect with pvc pipe between each of the disconnects? I'm trying to avoid any exposed ground wires or a wire trough on the outside of this house

 

[Fred B]

split bolt from the GEC to each individual service disconnect as shown in post #8

Doesn't the GEC need to be continuous (non broken) to the GE? Or must be non-reversable splice. This has been a question for me when you have multiple service panels and not allowed to connect in the meter or bussed meter bank.

 

[infinity]

Doesn't the GEC need to be continuous (non broken) to the GE? Or must be non-reversable splice.

Yes it does but what were talking about is an unbroken GEC and then "taps" to each disconnect. The "taps" are not GEC's they are bonding jumpers and bonding jumpers can be connected to the GEC with split-bolts.