GEC placement

[Strathead]

I have never seen a meter can where the neutral is not already bonded with provisions for the GEC connection.
With that said, what does your state rules say about the other terminations in a meter enclosure; are they impervious to any problems?
I know we all hate being called in the middle of the night during a blizzard to fix a GEC connection but the other line load conductors would be a much bigger problem.

That is true here in Florida and they actually REQUIRE a ground brought to the meter regardless of grounds brought elsewhere. Out West it is different.

 

[electrofelon]

You might own but if there is a lock on it how do you open the POCO lock on the cover without the key or drilling out the cover?

You call the Poco for access. I have to call someone to come unlock or go pick up a key for access to electrical rooms all the time, why should a meter be treated differently?

 

[infinity]

You call the Poco for access. I have to call someone to come unlock or go pick up a key for access to electrical rooms all the time, why should a meter be treated differently?

Fair point. Although I don't believe that the intent of it being accessible would require one to wait a week for the POCO to show up.

 

[Fred B]

A GEC is perfectly accessible inside a meter. Remember YOU own the meter socket.

But around here, every POCO would restrict removal of the meter to allow access by anyone other than them. That can take anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks to schedule and most times for the one POCO it can take 3 days to reach on the phone to even begin the process.
Is it really accessible?

Have negotiated an exception with the one POCO allowing me to remove the tag and pull meter to troubleshoot with notification depending on locations. (Usually related to how far and rural to their line crews it is.)

 

[electrofelon]

Fair point. Although I don't believe that the intent of it being accessible would require one to wait a week for the POCO to show up.

I guess in a perfect world the NEC would just eliminate the accessible requirement wording or specifically say it's considered accessible or not required to be accessible inside a meter socket. Preferably just the first one, they need to get all this stuff that over stresses the importance of the gec and helps grounding myths persist out of the code.

 

[roger]

I'll ask again, why does the GEC connection matter anymore than the ungrounded and grounded conductor terminations inside a meter enclosure?
Why aren't they a concern?

If one of those failed you would either wait for the POCO to unlock the meter or simply cut the seal. With that said, how many here have had to repair a GEC connection inside any enclosure

 

[infinity]

Why is it even required to be accessible? Do GEC's need to get disconnected for testing purposes?

 

[electrofelon]

Why is it even required to be accessible? Do GEC's need to get disconnected for testing purposes?

I think it's just typical outdated NEC nonsense, where no one remembers why but they still won't change it.

 

[jaggedben]

Yeah, it's required to be accessible because in an emergency I might need to come out and reconnect the GEC connection. But that doesn't apply to the grounded or ungrounded conductors. <rolls eyes>

 

[jaggedben]

...With that said, how many here have had to repair a GEC connection inside any enclosure

Oh I've had to do it a few times, but always for an inspector, never for a customer.

 

[B&V Construction]

Getting back to the OP's project... the inspector is most likely to question something that is unusual or unfamiliar, and the OP's concern is warranted.

Can you request access from the POCO? Sure. Should anyone really need to see inside the meter socket after initial inspection? Probably not. But still, if it's unfamiliar you have to anticipate a challenge.

It's a valid point that none of the other connections inside the meter socket are "accessible". Does the code say that the point at which the GEC is bonded to the service neutral must be accessible, or just that the GEC itself must be accessible?

 

[electrofelon]

250.24(A)(1)

(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the
overhead service conductors, service drop, underground serv‐
ice conductors, or service lateral to, including the terminal or
bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at
the service disconnecting means.

 

[electrofelon]

It gets a little interesting if we look at the definitions of accessible

Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means. (CMP-1)

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building. (CMP-1)

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without
requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions such as to use tools (other than keys), to climb over or under, to remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth. (CMP-1)

Informational Note: Use of keys is a common practice under controlled or supervised conditions and a common alternative
to the ready access requirements under such supervised conditions as provided elsewhere in the NEC.

Some questions:

So do we use the equipment or wiring methods definition?

It's strange that "accessible as applied to equipment" says not behind locked doors, but readily accessible says keys are okay??

I don't really understand the informational note.

 

[Fred B]

Key word in that section Accessible and not Readily Accessible.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods).
Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in or blocked by the structure, other electrical equipment, other building systems, or finish of the building. (CMP-1)

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible).
Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions such as to use tools (other than keys), to climb over or under, to remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth. (CMP-1)

So it appears no matter how we feel about having the GEC landing in a meter enclosure the GEC attachment point to the service neutral only needs to be Accessible not readily accessible per the code. The Meter enclosure even though needing tools to cut off the seal and the POCO involvement and even with a sometime long wait for them, it is technically Accessible.

So do we use the equipment or wiring methods definition?

The GEC is a wiring, so it would seem logically it is "accessible as applied to wiring methods".

 

[electrofelon]

Key word in that section Accessible and not Readily Accessible.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods).
Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in or blocked by the structure, other electrical equipment, other building systems, or finish of the building. (CMP-1)

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible).
Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions such as to use tools (other than keys), to climb over or under, to remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth. (CMP-1)

So it appears no matter how we feel about having the GEC landing in a meter enclosure the GEC attachment point to the service neutral only needs to be Accessible not readily accessible per the code. The Meter enclosure even though needing tools to cut off the seal and the POCO involvement and even with a sometime long wait for them, it is technically Accessible.


The GEC is a wiring, so it would seem logically it is "accessible as applied to wiring methods".

Right, I wasn't questioning whether readily accessible applied, that was just kind of a side note of curiosity

I agree, if we are using accessible, as applied to wiring methods, I don't see that a POCO lock goes contrary to that definition.

However, it's still not really clear to me which definition we should use. It is equipment itself that we are questioning having a lock on, but to access a wiring connection....

 

[mtnelect]

Electric Utility Service Equipment Requirements Committee (EUSERC) was formed in 1983 when the Southern California group PUSERC (formed in 1947) and the Northern California group WUESSC (formed in 1950) merged. At this time there were approximately 40 utilities involved. There are now 80 utilities involved in EUSERC from 14 states. The purpose of the organization is to promote uniform electric service requirements among the member utilities, publish existing utility service requirements for electric service equipment and provide direction for development of future metering technology. EUSERC's goal is to support the development of metering and service equipment that is safe and cost effective to the serving agencies and their customers, and to establish manufacturing and installation requirements for metering and service equipment that are acceptable to all member utilities.

 

[electrofelon]

Electric Utility Service Equipment Requirements Committee (EUSERC) was formed in 1983 when the Southern California group PUSERC (formed in 1947) and the Northern California group WUESSC (formed in 1950) merged. At this time there were approximately 40 utilities involved. There are now 80 utilities involved in EUSERC from 14 states. The purpose of the organization is to promote uniform electric service requirements among the member utilities, publish existing utility service requirements for electric service equipment and provide direction for development of future metering technology. EUSERC's goal is to support the development of metering and service equipment that is safe and cost effective to the serving agencies and their customers, and to establish manufacturing and installation requirements for metering and service equipment that are acceptable to all member utilities.

Lol, that's working out fantastically huh? what a joke

 

[mtnelect]

When I pick up a panel at the wholesale house that's what I look for "EUSERC" then I know we are in sync with the utility.

 

[B&V Construction]

250.24(A)(1)

(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the
overhead service conductors, service drop, underground serv‐
ice conductors, or service lateral to, including the terminal or
bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at
the service disconnecting means

This points towards connecting the GEC to the service neutral somewhere other than in the meter socket. Upstream of the meters seems like a good candidate. Can the OP remind us of why that's not an option?

 

[electrofelon]

When I pick up a panel at the wholesale house that's what I look for "EUSERC" then I know we are in sync with the utility.

We are not talking about utility approved meter sockets, not sure what that has to do with anything being discussed.