Golf Cart Chargers

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kwired said:
I'm no golfer, but some guys have to run around more to find lost balls or get to errant shots, there is also those that play only 9 holes while others play 18. Why do all the carts have to come in at same time for charging? Some places maybe they do, smaller country clubs like I have been to they may come and go at different hours and definitely not all of them at same time.

Sure one can always figure what maximum demand will be and make that the minimum supply, but chances are you can get away with less then that - the larger the facility the more likely you can probably apply a demand factor - we just haven't determined what that may be.
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Yes, I'm sure you could apply some sort of diversity factor and there will be comings and goings between sun up and sundown. But supply capacity will ultimately determine how many chargers you can have operational at the same time. I mean, can be you sure that all those in service won't operate at rated capacity simultaneously? I don't know.

Slightly off at a tangent......I wonder about the raison d'être for golf carts. I mean golf gets you out into the fresh air and walking. Play, say the 10th in four strokes and you would walk from the tee to the green. Good, healthy stuff. Then get in your buggy and go from the 10th green to the 11th tee...........

Kinda defeats the object - or I'm missing something?
 
Besoeker said:
Yes, I'm sure you could apply some sort of diversity factor and there will be comings and goings between sun up and sundown. But supply capacity will ultimately determine how many chargers you can have operational at the same time. I mean, can be you sure that all those in service won't operate at rated capacity simultaneously? I don't know.

Slightly off at a tangent......I wonder about the raison d'être for golf carts. I mean golf gets you out into the fresh air and walking. Play, say the 10th in four strokes and you would walk from the tee to the green. Good, healthy stuff. Then get in your buggy and go from the 10th green to the 11th tee...........

Kinda defeats the object - or I'm missing something?
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This is English?

rai·son d'ê·tre
ˌrāzôn ˈdetrə/
noun

  • the most important reason or purpose for someone or something's existence.
    !important]"an institution whose raison d'être is public service broadcasting"




 
Besoeker said:
Yes, I'm sure you could apply some sort of diversity factor and there will be comings and goings between sun up and sundown. But supply capacity will ultimately determine how many chargers you can have operational at the same time. I mean, can be you sure that all those in service won't operate at rated capacity simultaneously? I don't know.

Slightly off at a tangent......I wonder about the raison d'être for golf carts. I mean golf gets you out into the fresh air and walking. Play, say the 10th in four strokes and you would walk from the tee to the green. Good, healthy stuff. Then get in your buggy and go from the 10th green to the 11th tee...........

Kinda defeats the object - or I'm missing something?
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Ummm, part of why I don't golf is most that golf around here seem to think it is an occasion to get drunk, not an afternoon of exercise and fresh air. Of course if you have been drinking you need to use motorized vehicles as you certainly can't walk very well.

I know one person that broke his leg in an incident with a golf cart at the golf course:(
 
mgookin said:
All of the carts are brought in dead during a power outage. All carts are connected.
Some time later the power comes on. What happens?
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They either charge the batteries or they trip the main before the load drops enough for it to hold.

Maybe the question should be what is the chance of them all being dead at one time and/or all starting a charge cycle at the same time?
 
kwired said:
They either charge the batteries or they trip the main before the load drops enough for it to hold.

Maybe the question should be what is the chance of them all being dead at one time and/or all starting a charge cycle at the same time?
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Good questions. Ultimately it's up to the customer to see if they want to pay for a bigger service or a logic system which will stagger the loads over time which will result in longer time requisite to charge the batteries. It could save them money over time if POCO is going to charge for peak demand. Not sure what kind of service they'll have or what their POCO's tariffs say.
 
mgookin said:
Good questions. Ultimately it's up to the customer to see if they want to pay for a bigger service or a logic system which will stagger the loads over time which will result in longer time requisite to charge the batteries. It could save them money over time if POCO is going to charge for peak demand. Not sure what kind of service they'll have or what their POCO's tariffs say.
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What you call a golf cart shed and what I call a golf cart shed are probably not really that close to the same thing either.;)
 
mgookin said:
We call it the cart barn and it's typically under the country club.
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I was asked one time to help one of our clients who was getting some grief from the local FD re ventilation in the cart barn. It was located directly under the pro shop and housed about 30 carts IIRC. Every cart had a charging connection to it.

From what I've seen, and my own experience charging batteries, usually you pop up at high amps for the first 15 minutes or so, then it settles down at about 75% of that peak, runs for a good long while and then tapers off. I would think that you'd need to talk to the battery manufacturer and the charger manufacturer and see what they say about the charge profile for a typical battery in golf cart service, concentrating on where you would be at the end of 3 hours so you can see how many chargers can go on a circuit. Don't forget about conversion inefficiencies; just because the battery is taking 1 amp equivalent at 120VAC doesn't mean that's the draw.
 
gadfly56 said:
I was asked one time to help one of our clients who was getting some grief from the local FD re ventilation in the cart barn. It was located directly under the pro shop and housed about 30 carts IIRC. Every cart had a charging connection to it.

From what I've seen, and my own experience charging batteries, usually you pop up at high amps for the first 15 minutes or so, then it settles down at about 75% of that peak, runs for a good long while and then tapers off. I would think that you'd need to talk to the battery manufacturer and the charger manufacturer and see what they say about the charge profile for a typical battery in golf cart service, concentrating on where you would be at the end of 3 hours so you can see how many chargers can go on a circuit. Don't forget about conversion inefficiencies; just because the battery is taking 1 amp equivalent at 120VAC doesn't mean that's the draw.
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I would concentrate more on where I would be in the first 15 minutes. :)
That's long enough to take out any derated overcurrent device you would happen to have in place for diminishing amperage in the long haul.


JAP>
 
mgookin said:
All of the carts are brought in dead during a power outage. All carts are connected.
Some time later the power comes on. What happens?
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The main trips. You are describing a worst case/highest load scenario.

If there is no NEC article that covers this, then a study at another similarly sized facility may be in order. ofc, if you want to make it bulletproof, design it so all 100 carts can be on max charge simultaneously, and bill accordingly. Anything substantially less leaves the possibility of the customer overloading the system. and we dont want that, do we? ;)
 
jap said:
I would concentrate more on where I would be in the first 15 minutes. :)
That's long enough to take out any derated overcurrent device you would happen to have in place for diminishing amperage in the long haul.


JAP>
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Well the OP made it clear he was more worried about derating for the 3-hour limit than the front end demand.
 
Good points made by all.
Ultimately it needs to work for the client.
Nothing worse than go-backs, especially when some brand new country club has 100 dead golf carts in the morning.
It's worth considering putting an alarm on the circuit using a relay. If the charging circuit goes off it alerts the proshop manager.
 
Lets see,,,, there are 18 holes on a normal golf course,,, normally at max 4 players per hole,,,, Normally at max 2 players per cart,,,,18 holes x 2 carts per hole = normally a max of 36 Carts in use, with 64 sitting idle in the storage shed,,,,, Hmmm....


JAP>
 
jap said:
Lets see,,,, there are 18 holes on a normal golf course,,, normally at max 4 players per hole,,,, Normally at max 2 players per cart,,,,18 holes x 2 carts per hole = normally a max of 36 Carts in use, with 64 sitting idle in the storage shed,,,,, Hmmm....


JAP>
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St Andrews has seven public courses.
 
jap said:
Lets see,,,, there are 18 holes on a normal golf course,,, normally at max 4 players per hole,,,, Normally at max 2 players per cart,,,,18 holes x 2 carts per hole = normally a max of 36 Carts in use, with 64 sitting idle in the storage shed,,,,, Hmmm....


JAP>
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There are 36 and 72 hole courses.
There are also carts used by staff (beverage cart, course marshal, other staff).
There's more than one round played per day.
Owner would not put 100 carts in service if they only needed 36.
Customer wants 100 cart capacity and apparently is willing to pay for it. It's up to the professionals to make it work.
 
mgookin said:
There are 36 and 72 hole courses.
There are also carts used by staff (beverage cart, course marshal, other staff).
There's more than one round played per day.
Owner would not put 100 carts in service if they only needed 36.
Customer wants 100 cart capacity and apparently is willing to pay for it. It's up to the professionals to make it work.
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In all of the back and forth from what I have seen, there is one thing that cannot be ruled out.
There is the possibility that all 100 cart could be completely dead at one time and would require full capacity to carry the charging system if such an event were to occur.
With that being said and the owner willing to pay for it, why would you not figure the charging load at 100%?
Anything less and your simply rolling the dice.


JAP>
 
By the way if the course marshalls are envolved there's a good chance your required to be walking. :)

JAP>
 
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