Ground Conductor Splicing
- Thread starter rcaron
- Start date
- Status
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
See 250.64(C)
See 250.64(C)
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
To elaborate on Ryan's post, the GEC is required to remain unbroken and unspliced it's entire length. You are permitted to splice it though if you use a exothermic splice (such as Cadweld) or an irreversible crimp type splice. You are not permitted to splice with split bolts.
To elaborate on Ryan's post, the GEC is required to remain unbroken and unspliced it's entire length. You are permitted to splice it though if you use a exothermic splice (such as Cadweld) or an irreversible crimp type splice. You are not permitted to splice with split bolts.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
If the concrete encased electrode is a supplemental grounding electrode the conductor can be spliced with a split bolt.
If the concrete encased electrode is a supplemental grounding electrode the conductor can be spliced with a split bolt.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
What code section are you basing this on?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
If the uffer conductor was routed to say the water line it could be spliced as it would be a bonding jumper not a GEC.
If the uffer conductor was routed to say the water line it could be spliced as it would be a bonding jumper not a GEC.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
250.53(D)(2)
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
How does that except out 250.64(C)?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
[ December 06, 2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: infinity ]
250.64(C) is for Grounding Electrode Conductors, the conductor from the supplemental electrode is not a GEC so 250.64(C) would not apply. If you look at 250.53(D)(2) you will see that the supplemental conductor is permitted to be directly connected to the GEC.
[ December 06, 2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: infinity ]
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
Using a split bolt doesn't create a splice though.
You can connect any bonding jumper to the grounding electrode conductor if you use a split bolt, becasue a split bolt is not a splice.
Using a split bolt doesn't create a splice though.
You can connect any bonding jumper to the grounding electrode conductor if you use a split bolt, becasue a split bolt is not a splice.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
Sorry, infinity, but it looks the the supplemental's conductor can be bonded to, but not be, the GEC, as I read it.
If the conductor can reach one of the items mentioned, then it can be bonded to it. Extending it, hmmm... Maybe, maybe not.
[ December 10, 2005, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: LarryFine ]
Sorry, infinity, but it looks the the supplemental's conductor can be bonded to, but not be, the GEC, as I read it.
If the conductor can reach one of the items mentioned, then it can be bonded to it. Extending it, hmmm... Maybe, maybe not.
[ December 10, 2005, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: LarryFine ]
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
I agree with what iwire said. A conductor that is not the GEC, but is a bonding jumper between grounding electrodes, can be spliced by reversible means. 250.53(C) requires the bonding jumpers to conform to 250.64(A), (B), and (E). It does not require them to conform to 250.64(C).
I agree with what iwire said. A conductor that is not the GEC, but is a bonding jumper between grounding electrodes, can be spliced by reversible means. 250.53(C) requires the bonding jumpers to conform to 250.64(A), (B), and (E). It does not require them to conform to 250.64(C).
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
I was trying to say the same thing this morning until my PC froze and lost my post.
Trevor
Thanks Eprice,
I was trying to say the same thing this morning until my PC froze and lost my post.
Trevor
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
A water pipe is not continuous to the electrical service. That's why we have Grounding Electrode Conductors.
Is the #4 CU the grounding electrode, or the Grounding Electrode Conductor to the electrode? If the #4 in question is the electrode, then run a GEC sized according to 250.66 to an accessible location and splice the electrode to the GEC using any reversible method. The GEC must be continuous between the service and the electrode.
A water pipe is not continuous to the electrical service. That's why we have Grounding Electrode Conductors.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
Check out 250.52(A)(3).
The electrode 'stops' when it is encased with less than 2" of concrete.
Check out 250.52(A)(3).
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
Around here, the Ufer is allowed to protrude from the foundation for the connection of the GEC.
See 250.68(A):
I could purchase a ten foot ground rod, drive it 8', and connect to the top of the ground rod.
The water metal pipe is for 10' underground. Prior to (...what, 96?) the existing wording coming into being, beyond 5' inside was considered part of the electrode to be used for interconnection of electrodes. Then the point of connection was limited to 5'. The electrode is still the same old electrode, it's underground. But it's understood that if the electrode is continuous to an accessible point, we're permitted to tie into that accessible point.
The business end of a Ufer must be 20' long, but there is no limitation on how long it can be. The business end must be encased by 2" of concrete, but obviously if you were to attempt to pull the electrode to the service as some do (and as the original poster appears to do), at some point you would have to leave the bottom of the foundation or footer, and shed the 2" of encasement.
Unless you bury the back of your service 3" into the foundation wall.
[ December 08, 2005, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
Around here, the Ufer is allowed to protrude from the foundation for the connection of the GEC.
See 250.68(A):
What that does not say is that the connection shall be required to be encased.
I could purchase a ten foot ground rod, drive it 8', and connect to the top of the ground rod.
The water metal pipe is for 10' underground. Prior to (...what, 96?) the existing wording coming into being, beyond 5' inside was considered part of the electrode to be used for interconnection of electrodes. Then the point of connection was limited to 5'. The electrode is still the same old electrode, it's underground. But it's understood that if the electrode is continuous to an accessible point, we're permitted to tie into that accessible point.
The business end of a Ufer must be 20' long, but there is no limitation on how long it can be. The business end must be encased by 2" of concrete, but obviously if you were to attempt to pull the electrode to the service as some do (and as the original poster appears to do), at some point you would have to leave the bottom of the foundation or footer, and shed the 2" of encasement.
Unless you bury the back of your service 3" into the foundation wall.
[ December 08, 2005, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
George I am sorry we are butting heads so much lately.
Consider a continuous piece of 4 AWG copper 200' long, 100' of it is encased in the concrete footing, 100' of it runs through the building to the service.
That continuous conductor stops being a concrete encased electrode when it has less than 2" of concrete encasement.
From that point on it is either a bonding jumper or a GEC.
The code tells us a concrete encased electrode is encased in concrete.
The code does not say that the water pipe must be completely buried.
A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 10 ft or more and electrically continuous to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor.
Bob
[ December 08, 2005, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
George I am sorry we are butting heads so much lately.
The point of connection is irrelevant.
Consider a continuous piece of 4 AWG copper 200' long, 100' of it is encased in the concrete footing, 100' of it runs through the building to the service.
That continuous conductor stops being a concrete encased electrode when it has less than 2" of concrete encasement.
From that point on it is either a bonding jumper or a GEC.
That is comparing apples to oranges.
The code tells us a concrete encased electrode is encased in concrete.
The code does not say that the water pipe must be completely buried.
Or simplified.
A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 10 ft or more and electrically continuous to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor.
Bob
[ December 08, 2005, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
Originally posted by iwire:
George I am sorry we are butting heads so much lately.
A concrete encased electrode is a highly similar concept to water pipe. A water pipe is a dirt-encased electrode.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Ground Conductor Splicing
George the wording describing a water pipe grounding electrode and a concrete encased electrode are quite different.
A concrete encased electrode can not exist outside of concrete, not possible.
A water pipe grounding electrode can and does exist outside of the ground up to 5'.
Read the sections carefully using "Charlie's Rules".
Forget what you have done or what you think they should mean.
George the wording describing a water pipe grounding electrode and a concrete encased electrode are quite different.
A concrete encased electrode can not exist outside of concrete, not possible.
A water pipe grounding electrode can and does exist outside of the ground up to 5'.
Read the sections carefully using "Charlie's Rules".
Forget what you have done or what you think they should mean.
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