Ground up or down?
- Thread starter ardy611
- Start date
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frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: Ground up or down?
really the duplex outlets grounding slot location dont really make much diffrence and what i will vote with dereckbc and few other will say the same thing use the common sense to set up and my inspecter say nothing about useing grounding up or down or what ever it will be my main point is use the common sense what it will set up
merci marc
really the duplex outlets grounding slot location dont really make much diffrence and what i will vote with dereckbc and few other will say the same thing use the common sense to set up and my inspecter say nothing about useing grounding up or down or what ever it will be my main point is use the common sense what it will set up
merci marc
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Ground up or down?
Hey guys, here?s an idea! How?s about we come up with a list of TFAQ (Too Frequently Asked Questions)? The ?ground up or down? question would be my candidate for the first TFAQ. We have every member agree, as a condition of membership, to the following requirement: ?Anyone how posts a question that is already on the TFAQ list shall pay a fine.? We could work out the level of fines, and use the money for a ?relief fund? for members of our profession who are injured on the job. Whatcha tink?
(Aside to ardy611. Welcome aboard. Please note that participation in this forum requires a sense of humor, or at the minimum, a tolerance for others who have such a sense.)
Hey guys, here?s an idea! How?s about we come up with a list of TFAQ (Too Frequently Asked Questions)? The ?ground up or down? question would be my candidate for the first TFAQ. We have every member agree, as a condition of membership, to the following requirement: ?Anyone how posts a question that is already on the TFAQ list shall pay a fine.? We could work out the level of fines, and use the money for a ?relief fund? for members of our profession who are injured on the job. Whatcha tink?
(Aside to ardy611. Welcome aboard. Please note that participation in this forum requires a sense of humor, or at the minimum, a tolerance for others who have such a sense.)
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Ground up or down?
Yeah but whats the answer?
and by the way, how many plugs can I put on my circuit in my house? And how do I wire a three way switch?
Yeah but whats the answer?
and by the way, how many plugs can I put on my circuit in my house? And how do I wire a three way switch?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Ground up or down?
And while we're at it, "Which is heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold?" (If you think you know the answer to this one, would you care to bet a beer on it?)
And while we're at it, "Which is heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold?"
(If you think you know the answer to this one, would you care to bet a beer on it?)
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Ground up or down?
One is 6 the other is a half dozen. I'll take a michelob, please
One is 6 the other is a half dozen. I'll take a michelob, please
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: Ground up or down?
This question is valid, is it not? I know I have wondered myself. Here's the most logical reasonings for up vs. down that I can come up with, and I think both are valid.
1. UP With a cord plugged into a receptacle having the ground terminal up, if something was to fall onto the cord near the receptacle the first directly exposed male terminal of the plug would be the ground. This reduces the potential for exposed live terminals because the ground would act somewhat like a guard.
2. DOWN With the ground terminal down, the last terminal to be disconnected from the circuit would be the ground. This maintains the safety of the ground connection until both live connections have been opened.
Bob
This question is valid, is it not? I know I have wondered myself. Here's the most logical reasonings for up vs. down that I can come up with, and I think both are valid.
1. UP With a cord plugged into a receptacle having the ground terminal up, if something was to fall onto the cord near the receptacle the first directly exposed male terminal of the plug would be the ground. This reduces the potential for exposed live terminals because the ground would act somewhat like a guard.
2. DOWN With the ground terminal down, the last terminal to be disconnected from the circuit would be the ground. This maintains the safety of the ground connection until both live connections have been opened.
Bob
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Ground up or down?
The ?English Absolute? system of measurement (that?s the one that most of us grew up with) measures the weight of feathers, dogs, wrist watches, and many other things I could name in units of ?pounds avoirdupois.? Most of the time, we don?t bother using that second word. There are 16 ounces to this type of pound. But the weight of gold, other precious metals, and pharmaceuticals is measured in units of ?pounds troy.? Most of the time, we don?t bother using that second word either. There are between 13 and 14 ounces to this type of pound. Thus, the two types of ?pounds? are not the same weight. A pound of feathers weighs about 22% more than a pound of gold.
So this was a trick question, you say? Not as tricky as some we have seen on our professional exams, I believe.
Sorry, but I?ll take a Red Hook IPA. The answer is that the pound of feathers is heavier - by a little more than two ounces.Originally posted by ryan_618:I'll take a michelob, please
The ?English Absolute? system of measurement (that?s the one that most of us grew up with) measures the weight of feathers, dogs, wrist watches, and many other things I could name in units of ?pounds avoirdupois.? Most of the time, we don?t bother using that second word. There are 16 ounces to this type of pound. But the weight of gold, other precious metals, and pharmaceuticals is measured in units of ?pounds troy.? Most of the time, we don?t bother using that second word either. There are between 13 and 14 ounces to this type of pound. Thus, the two types of ?pounds? are not the same weight. A pound of feathers weighs about 22% more than a pound of gold.
So this was a trick question, you say? Not as tricky as some we have seen on our professional exams, I believe.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Ground up or down?
The truth is that the probability that the one might become a contributing factor in a tragic accident is no higher than the probability that the other might become a contributing factor in a tragic accident. Conversely, the probability that the one might become the key factor in preventing a tragic accident is no higher than the probability that the other might become the key factor in preventing a tragic accident.
I equate the argument to the following situation: Suppose you hear on your car radio a flash news bulletin that warns you that a wayward satellite is about to fall out of the sky into your neighborhood. It will hit the ground in two minutes. Do you: (1) Drive North? (2) Drive South? (3) Drive East? (4) Drive West? (5) Stay where you are? Three minutes later, we may learn whether anyone made an unfortunate choice. But at the very moment you have to decide, the truth is that no course of action is safer than any other.
"Ground Up versus Ground Down" is not a safety issue. It does not belong in the NEC.
I think neither is a compelling reason, for the simple reason that both sound compelling.
The truth is that the probability that the one might become a contributing factor in a tragic accident is no higher than the probability that the other might become a contributing factor in a tragic accident. Conversely, the probability that the one might become the key factor in preventing a tragic accident is no higher than the probability that the other might become the key factor in preventing a tragic accident.
I equate the argument to the following situation: Suppose you hear on your car radio a flash news bulletin that warns you that a wayward satellite is about to fall out of the sky into your neighborhood. It will hit the ground in two minutes. Do you: (1) Drive North? (2) Drive South? (3) Drive East? (4) Drive West? (5) Stay where you are? Three minutes later, we may learn whether anyone made an unfortunate choice. But at the very moment you have to decide, the truth is that no course of action is safer than any other.
"Ground Up versus Ground Down" is not a safety issue. It does not belong in the NEC.
joe tedesco
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
Re: Ground up or down?
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Ground up or down?
Under normal conditions what would cause the plate screw to loosen?
If this happened while someone was taking the plate off, why were they doing it with the power on and a plug inserted? "Unqualified personnel" comes to mind.
Under normal conditions what would cause the plate screw to loosen?
If this happened while someone was taking the plate off, why were they doing it with the power on and a plug inserted? "Unqualified personnel" comes to mind.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Ground up or down?
"someone removes"
At what point do we stop protecting people from their own misguided actions.
Lets face it if someone removes the screw without anything plugged in it still creates a dangerous situation.
Leave it up to the person paying the bill to decide which way they want to face the outlets they bought.
Bob
Joe the problem has nothing to do with which way up the ground is, you state the problem yourself.
"someone removes"
At what point do we stop protecting people from their own misguided actions.
Lets face it if someone removes the screw without anything plugged in it still creates a dangerous situation.
Leave it up to the person paying the bill to decide which way they want to face the outlets they bought.
Bob
joe tedesco
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
Re: Ground up or down?
My battery went dead a few minutes ago because I like to run it down when I am on the road ....
I am plugged in again, so .... to continue this was a receptacle that was used to supply a 3 wire cord to energize a transformer for some sort of office equipment.
The 6/32 screw was removed by a student in a school, knowing that when the person using the equipment removeed the transformer, that this would happen.
Unqualified Persons -- there are many for sure all over the place.
What's your opinion of a "Qualified Person"
My battery went dead a few minutes ago because I like to run it down when I am on the road ....
I am plugged in again, so .... to continue this was a receptacle that was used to supply a 3 wire cord to energize a transformer for some sort of office equipment.
The 6/32 screw was removed by a student in a school, knowing that when the person using the equipment removeed the transformer, that this would happen.
Unqualified Persons -- there are many for sure all over the place.
What's your opinion of a "Qualified Person"
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Ground up or down?
I'm wondering if there should be a requirement for recepticles when the recepticle is for a cord connected appliance that has a ground plug like this one. Should the contractor be required to flip the recepticle to help insure protection of the cord?
I'm wondering if there should be a requirement for recepticles when the recepticle is for a cord connected appliance that has a ground plug like this one. Should the contractor be required to flip the recepticle to help insure protection of the cord?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Ground up or down?
I think that we need to outlaw the use of electricity...its just too dangerous to have available to people!!
Don
I think that we need to outlaw the use of electricity...its just too dangerous to have available to people!!
Don
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