How much to charge on failed service call?

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dbuckley said:
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that for any resi fault that stays put (ie not an intermittent fault) then if you're still looking for the cause after half an hour then you've failed. I'm not saying you will have the problem in your hand, for example you may have determined that the fault is somewhere hidden under a wall between two adjacent outlets, but you are confident you know where it is, and if the customer says "yep, cut that wall and fix it" then you wont come out with a red face.
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Sometimes it takes more than 1/2 hr just to move furniture.

And a mobile home can take a long time to troubleshoot because the circuits skip around a lot, might have a circuit doing 2 receptacles in the back bedroom and 4 more in the living room on the opposite end.
 
readydave8 said:
Sometimes it takes more than 1/2 hr just to move furniture.

And a mobile home can take a long time to troubleshoot because the circuits skip around a lot, might have a circuit doing 2 receptacles in the back bedroom and 4 more in the living room on the opposite end.
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I agree, sometimes it takes a half hour just find the fusebox. I've also had to pick up toddlers that would not take No for an answer when Mom's arms are already full with another. Got a big wet slobbery kiss from that one. The toddler that is.
 
ptonsparky said:
I agree, sometimes it takes a half hour just find the fusebox. I've also had to pick up toddlers that would not take No for an answer when Mom's arms are already full with another. Got a big wet slobbery kiss from that one. The toddler that is.
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Watch it. Getting a little risque for a Monday. :grin:
 
I had a troubleshoot that had a wall built in front of the two right-side panel cover screws. I had to use a reciprosaw to remove some wall to remove the panel cover. That one took a longer than a half hour. Lately it seems like I have to go into the attic to find the problem. With ladder & drop-cloths setup and cleanup that can add time to the troubleshoot also. I usually charge 2.5-3 hours which is a typical maximum troubleshoot. If it's a lot less, I discount the charge.

BTW, no such thing as a failed service call. They might not want to fix the problem after I find it, but I find it or give a quote to rewire it.
 
hurk27 said:
Response to the above in red:

Interesting around here when we find space heaters (including those overly priced electric fireplaces), the most common problem is stabbed in the back receptacles, second is loose or corroded receptacle terminals, where the device is used for a splice point, which I don't do anymore as we pig-tail all receptacles now.
I would say for third place is a toss up between bad breaker stab connections, and loose splices in box's, and with box's where the wire is not twisted most likely results a burnt wire nut.
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Also look for where the folks who made it connected the 2 halves together. Have seen it as a plug/recep type unit on the NM that is buried behind the siding and/or in the attic. Lots-o-fun
 
hurk27 said:
Response to the above in red:

Interesting around here when we find space heaters (including those overly priced electric fireplaces), the most common problem is stabbed in the back receptacles, second is loose or corroded receptacle terminals, where the device is used for a splice point, which I don't do anymore as we pig-tail all receptacles now.
I would say for third place is a toss up between bad breaker stab connections, and loose splices in box's, and with box's where the wire is not twisted most likely results a burnt wire nut.
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Fortunately, it hasn't been OK to use the device for connections for decades (if ever) in this area. But the crimp connections and the 3M tap connections are very common.

On another note, I really smile at the "never had a problem I couldn't solve in 1/2 hour" comments. Must be awesome to be that good:grin:
 
LarryFine said:
It's easy if saying "It's broke!" is a solution.
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It takes a half hour or more to get to many calls and another half hour to have the customer but the pit bull in the back yard
An open circuit usually takes a lot longer then a half hour to identify however you may get lucky and find one faster
 
I spent an hour one day trying to figure out why there was no power to the garage receptacles. Lights worked, no GFCI in the garage, or any where I could find near the garage. Just as I'm thinking that I'm going to have to run a new line the wife says to the husband, "did you tell him that the powder room receptacle doesn't work either?"

Found my GFCI.

Love it though when you look like the smartest guy in the world. Told a lady one time that the only thing I could think of was that a mouse had chewed through the wiring in her new home because we had done the install and everything worked for almost a year. Checked the attic and couldn't find anything, so I told her that I would have to open the wall and run a new line up to the attic. With her standing there I punched open the first hole and there was a mouse laying fried on the fire block and the wire was chewed through. :roll:
 
cowboyjwc said:
Love it though when you look like the smartest guy in the world. Told a lady one time that the only thing I could think of was that a mouse had chewed through the wiring in her new home because we had done the install and everything worked for almost a year. Checked the attic and couldn't find anything, so I told her that I would have to open the wall and run a new line up to the attic. With her standing there I punched open the first hole and there was a mouse laying fried on the fire block and the wire was chewed through. :roll:
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Awesome! Hope you had your neck brace on. :grin:
 
bullheimer said:
No need to talk about what it was, but i spent hours trying to fix lost power to a light switch and couldn't figure it out.

I like the whole 'satisfaction guaranteed' thing, but i still ought to charge something. $100 minimum? Free? one hour? two hours? Half time? Pay him???? I changed about five outlets that broke when i took them out of their boxes. They cost 50 cents a piece.

I feel like an idiot for not stopping and just running a new wire from the panel, but i got carried away trying to find this thing, also got on a wild goose chase when the owner said they had the same problem a year ago and it was fixed by changing an outlet in a bedroom across the house (nearer the panel). Oh well. take another one up the poopie-doo.
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If you charge them and god forbid, some handyman finds the problem and get it right, your reputation will be severely tarnished. You'll become known like the clueless auto-mechanic who can't diagnose worth a crap and threw every parts there is to replace, except where the problem is.

You're going to get asked. What was wrong with them? Nothing? Well why did you replace it?
 
cowboyjwc said:
I spent an hour one day trying to figure out why there was no power to the garage receptacles. Lights worked, no GFCI in the garage, or any where I could find near the garage. Just as I'm thinking that I'm going to have to run a new line the wife says to the husband, "did you tell him that the powder room receptacle doesn't work either?"
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Did you check continuity between ground and neutral as well as voltage between hot and ground ? GFCIs are double poled, so, if both test fails, it's a fairly good guess that there's a GFCI upstream somewhere.
 
These are tough situations. I've uncovered outlets behind wallpaper & acoustic foam, found open splices in walls or crawl spaces that came loose, etc.

Part of it is looking competent & keeping good will with your customer. If I miss a bad receptacle or switch that I should have caught 1st time, I don't charge for my error time. I play by ear, trying to be fair to customer & me too. My kids have to eat same as his do.

That's 1 of the worst things about doing residential work. Generally, a lot more jacklegs have been involved along the way, doing anything that would make the light come on. You see some of that in commercial, but it's epidemic in residential.

I've seen receptacles with #16 wire in the wall without a box, fed by tapping hot & ground from a range outlet on 60 A fuses. I've seen a receptacle fed with good wiring methods from an existing circuit, but with doorbell wire. Open pull chain lights in wet crawl spaces with sump pumps tapped from the light. I've nearly given up being upset by it. I just fix it if they will pay me to do it and warn about what else needs fixing.
 
jmellc said:
...found open splices in walls or crawl spaces that came loose, etc.

Part of it is looking competent & keeping good will with your customer.
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Or trying not to strangle them. Ever find a device that was NEVER wired but the customer tells you it "quit working"?
 
mivey said:
Or trying not to strangle them. Ever find a device that was NEVER wired but the customer tells you it "quit working"?
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Yes for sure. Saw one the other day, a recep the new tenant said hadn't worked since moving in. It was a cut in box. I removed & found a 2 foot tail of wire that went nowhere. Finished basement underneath with drop ceiling. Called owner & he remembered years ago seeing that wire when installing ceiling. Had an electrician verify it wasn't live & covered up, just as it was. 1 of the jobs I posted under "Irritations" yesterday.
 
Electric-Light said:
Did you check continuity between ground and neutral as well as voltage between hot and ground ? GFCIs are double poled, so, if both test fails, it's a fairly good guess that there's a GFCI upstream somewhere.
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Oh I was pretty sure that there was a GFCI somewhere because the house was new enough, but it shouldn't have been in the bathroom. I made the mistake of using logic that day.:roll:
 
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