I notice on some of the other pages of the broader catalog link that some products are noted as "Not UL/CSA listed"... so what does that mean for ones that have no note at all ???
How to use two 30 amp receptacles and get 50 amps
- Thread starter tom baker
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K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Do they make stuff that is not listed that the NEC requires to be listed?
If so, I would like to know exactly what products they are purveying that fit into that category.
The NEC does cover manufactured cords. 90.2(3).
At perhaps half the resistance of a single egc.
I assume you are talking of fault current, eh?
If for some reason the EGC's weren't interconnected at the source end, that would definitely be a violation... but at the same time, any ground fault will attempt to return to it's source on any available path, the intended purpose of EGC's... not limited to just the one run with the circuit conductors.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
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- Electrician
Who's catalog? Hubbell's or one of their distributor's that may sell other brands?
I am not trying to be antagonistic. If Hubbell is selling products that require a listing and not getting one, I would like to know it. If the adapter in question is in that category, I would like to know that as well.
Because we all know that adapters of this sort are required to be listed, correct?
Or not?
K8MHZ
Senior Member
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- Electrician
Yeah, but it's not the cords that are in question. It's the device. This is not just a simple adapter. It is an electronic device.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
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Yes, same one linked too earlier: http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/PDFS/H5263.pdf
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K8MHZ
Senior Member
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- Electrician
I guess the question is whether or not this device is part of the wiring system. If not, it is not an outlet and therefore cannot have a portion defined as a receptacle.
Also, if the device is physically in the watercraft it is exempt under 90.2(B)(1)
As such, consumers now have to have an electrical license to "install" an extension cord
:roll:Volta
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
The PVC male adapter HBL6085 is not UL listed per Hubble. Not the device in question, but still a component required to be listed per the NEC 352.6, and isn't.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
The device is not physically in the watercraft, it is hanging from the pedestal in open air and it supplies power to the boat. It is also fed from 2 (not 1) branch circuits with separate over current devices (breakers) that do not have handle ties.
This is a useful item. It can get someone power for a short term need. Because people have seen these, they don't understand why I can't rewire their pedestal from 2 30-amp receptacles to 1 50-amp receptacle. They give me the deer in the headlight look when I explain that the 50-amp receptacle requires more than 3 times the power of one 30-amp receptacle. They usually reply something like "Well I have this cord that combines them".
I really hate that contraption.NEC ends at the receptacle... anything plugged into the receptacle is considered for the purpose of watercraft shore power.... it does not have to be technically in the watercraft, no more than the receptacle has to be in the watercraft.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
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- Wilmington, NC
As such, consumers now have to have an electrical license to "install" an extension cord
YEA! And I think we shouldn't let them change light bulbs either! :grin:
LawnGuyLandSparky
Senior Member
Marinas / Docks are the PERFECT place to implement RING MAINS as a new code standard in the United States. Think 4-8 slips and one 100a 240v circuit ring main wired with #6 awg!
Any boat could pull up to 100a @ 240v for less than the cost to provide 4 slips with 30a 120v!
Any boat could pull up to 100a @ 240v for less than the cost to provide 4 slips with 30a 120v!
Volta
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
Reference?
Doesn't it though?
Section 90.2(B) states that "Installations in ships, watercraft other than . . ." are Not Covered.
Section 90.2(A) states that "This Code covers the installation of electrical conductors, equipment . . . and raceways for the following:
(1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures. . . and floating buildings."
How do we decide if this 'no-mans' land' is governed by NFPA70 or the CFR or other?
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- Location
- Massachusetts
And I was careful not to say it was not listed only that I could not find it. Even when I enlarged the catalog photos I could not find a UL mark on the labels.
There is not doubt in my mind that Hubbell and all other manufactures have products without listings.
- Location
- Massachusetts
That is a popular opinion but IMO is not supported by the words in the NEC.
First
Charlie B will say placing an appliance in a room and plugging it is is not 'installing' it. To me that is just a convenient reading to reach the conclusion he would like.
Consider.
I could go on but I think the point has been made, clearly all the above code sections apply 'beyond the outlet'.
IMO the NEC applies to all electrical conductors and equipment in Public and private premises regardless of who is installing them.
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- Location
- Massachusetts
I do not know, I suspect not and I have not indicated I thought they should be.
But someone :grin: had said if it is a listed product it could be used without concern for the NEC.
All I am saying I do not think this is a listed product so it makes the above quote a moot point.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
You will have to get 555 rewritten. Good luck with that.
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