chevyx92
Senior Member
- Location
- VA BCH, VA
I agree with that.
How to use two 30 amp receptacles and get 50 amps
- Thread starter tom baker
- Start date
- Status
I agree with that.
- Location
- Massachusetts
The neutrals I was talking about are the premises wiring.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Not an issue. 300.3(B)(3).Then you've got the circuit-conductors-run-together issue.
...but the premises wiring is not what makes the neutrals wired in parallel. Each neutral is terminated to one receptacle at the load end, so they are not wired in parallel by NEC definition AND scope.
Then you've got the circuit-conductors-run-together issue.
I don't even understand how Larry sees the conductors as not run together.
It's essentially a Y-adapter. Like taking signal from two mono jacks and combining them into one stereo jack...
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
The 50a socket has a single neutral contact. If both sides of the Y cord have the grounded conductor connected, then there is a parallel path in both the cord and the premises wiring.
If only one side of the Y cord have an intact grounded-conductor path, then there's no parallel, but the other side's line conductor does not have a close-by return-current conductor.
Added: It would resemble a trailer-lighting wiring harness which picks up ground and one turn-signal light from one side, and the taillight and other turn-signal light from the other side.
The closest audio-cable analogy would be a two-RCA-plug to stereo-phone-plug adapter. Each RCA has its own ground contact, but the phone plug has a single ground for both channels.
If only one side of the Y cord have an intact grounded-conductor path, then there's no parallel, but the other side's line conductor does not have a close-by return-current conductor.
Added: It would resemble a trailer-lighting wiring harness which picks up ground and one turn-signal light from one side, and the taillight and other turn-signal light from the other side.
The closest audio-cable analogy would be a two-RCA-plug to stereo-phone-plug adapter. Each RCA has its own ground contact, but the phone plug has a single ground for both channels.
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- Location
- Massachusetts
Don how do you know the wiring methods between the panel and the buildings receptacle?
- Location
- Massachusetts
As soon as you plug the unit in the premises wiring is in parallel and in violation.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Remember, everyone, that's two building receptacles: two hots and two groundeds.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
And, if only one grounded conductor is used, the other line conductor does not use that circuit's grounded conductor.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Okay, proof just popped into by brain:
Imagine wanting 120/240 from a pair of kitchen-counter receptacles, and you had an assortment of single-prong plugs to use.
If the receptacles are GFCI protected, then it won't work with either one or two grounded-slot plugs; the GFCI's would trip either way.
Imagine wanting 120/240 from a pair of kitchen-counter receptacles, and you had an assortment of single-prong plugs to use.
If the receptacles are GFCI protected, then it won't work with either one or two grounded-slot plugs; the GFCI's would trip either way.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I am just assuming that both 30 amp receptacles are in the same pedestal. I don't think any single pedestal is fed with more than one feeder circuit as to do so would violate 225.30.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
I disagree. If it is approved by an NRTL it can be used in accordance to the instructions without violation.
They also have a larger one (YQ100Plus) that combines two 50 amp same 'phase' sources to supply power to a 100 amp receptacle. Check page 24 of this PDF. http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/PDFS/H5263.pdf
- Location
- Massachusetts
Can you show me that in the NEC?
Consider this, lets say the two outlets it is plugged into are from seperate transformers, that will result in current flow over the EGCs
- Location
- Massachusetts
Interestingly I do not see any claim that it is listed.
http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/marine/pdf/YQAdapters.pdf
http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/marine/pdf/YQAdapters.pdf
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
That's why I worded my post like I did.
I did take some time to try to find a listing, specifically a UL listing, but could not. That does not mean that it isn't listed.
I would ask that someone give a specific quote from the NEC that makes this device illegal, but that would not really be possible without actually having one to examine. Nomenclature meant for the sales department often times is far from representative of the true technical details of the product being described.
Sure, it makes me cringe to see such a product, but I don't think it prudent to base acceptability on ad script alone. I want to see one, look at the label and if I can't find a schematic and I have one to spare I will reverse engineer it before I decide if it is NEC compliant or not.
Sorry, but as much as this product gives me the creeps, I won't jump onto the 'it's illegal' bandwagon just yet, especially since I don't think Hubbell would make a product that would violate the NEC if actually used. To that extent, I would not want to be the inspector that gigged someone using the product which in the long run turned out to be legal. Hubbell would likely be a formidable and vengeful adversary in a court of law.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
I really don't think a company as large as Hubble would produce a none listed product
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Consider this, let's say someone at Hubbell being paid to design said product was smart enough to make the control electronics recognize the issue you state, above, in a manner to prevent it from turning on.
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I agree it is possible the neutral conductors may conduct in parallel.
However, the NEC does not say they cannot conduct in parallel. It says 1/0 and larger "shall be permitted to be connected in parallel (electrically joined at both ends)." By logical deduction, that means smaller than 1/0 shall not be connected in parallel (electrically joined at both ends). The wiring under NEC purview is not electrically connected at both ends. There is no electrical joining at the load end of the NEC wiring. The NEC has no control of wiring or methods employed outside its purview.
they make all kinds of stuff thats not listed.
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