Re: I dont see how.
Originally posted by redfish:
Sorry, even though you try to not sound insulting, you do. Calling someone or something pathetic is not exactly constructive critisism. I'm not going to go through all the differences in the cost of living and material with someone as wise and industrious as you obviosly are. Twenty hours or less for one man? Residential wireman or not, that's pushing the boundry of sounding unreal(thats the nice way to say sounds like B.S. to me).
I am very sorry to have pissed you off. "Pathetic" wasn't the best choice of words. Definately my bad. But the thought of 5 electricians (oh sorry, one electrician, and 4 helpers) in one house roughing boggles my industrious mind. I'll address this issue and put it to rest here and now.
In the 80's I did residential wiring and I can assure you, not only I, but also every other residential wireman wired 2400 sq. ft. houses (builders spec, not a dozen hi hats in every room) in 2 & 1/2 days.
At $23.00/hr for one man for 20 hours, your company spent $460.00 to wire a house, meanwhile, the company I work for pays $464.00 to five men to wire the same house in less than half the time. On the second day, while your lone wireman is still working on the first house, our crew has already finished a second house, and finally, on the third day at noon, when your lone wireman has finished the first house, our crew is half finished with our third house.
Apparently the concept of manhours escapes you. By the end of day 2 & 1/2 our shop would have 3 homes wired by 3 residential wiremen, By the end of day 3, when your "crew" has 3 homes wired, our "crew" of 3 would have 3 homes wired and started 3 more.
Texas is a right to work state, there is no union. You aren't going to hear about the local electricians going on strike for higher wages.
I don't recall this being a union -vs- nonunion issue. What's with the jab about unions going on strike? Besides, I don't remember when was the last time the electrician's union ever went on strike for higher wages? Could you refresh me on that one? I've got all night.
The company I work for is
thetop paying company around, and if you look in the yellow pages, you'll see a lot of competition. That's just the way it is, and don't think for a second that we are not QUALIFIED, because we are licensed, bonded and insured.
I never even hinted about qualifications. Why the ultra-defensiveness? But you have to admit when an industry is flooded with helpers something has to suffer and it isn't going to be the contractor's wallet.
Anyway... I'm done with this. If you care to read on, consider the following:
You say your company is one of the best-paying around. Wonderful. A Master gets 20, and a Journeyman gets 11 while a helper gets 8. And your crew consists of one at top pay, 2 journeymen and 2 helpers. Any union or State or county with a ratio rule would never allow it. Here's why -
Your shop is heavily dependant on cheap unskilled labor. And electrical work is a skilled trade, not ditchdigging. If the forces of business and capatilism are permitted to overrule the needs that a
craftdemands, then the trade can't attract the best most qualified workers, who naturally would demand a higher wage. So the "better" and "smarter" and more industriuos workers looking to make a better living seek their fortunes elsewhere.
If your helper/apprentice to journeyman ratio is unsustaining and unsupportable based on reasonable future work opportunity growth
industry-wide, it eventually floods the market with journeymen who cannot find work, therefore driving journeyman's wages down. This is of course, exactly what a contractor wants, and exactly what a working craftsman won't tolerate.
I don't know enough about your particular shop or what kind of work is it's mainstay. But being that we're both familiar with the residential wiring situation, let's use that as an example to illustrate this concept.
A shop with 4 helpers 4 residential journeymen and 2 master electricians is out wiring houses.
In 5 years those 2 masters move onto bigger and better things, and there's only room to promote 2 of those 4 journeymen into the masters position. 2 get left behind. "You're good but not good enough." But the 4 helpers can't move up to become 4 residential journeymen because there's already 2 and the shop won't pay for 6, so 2 either have to go or accept no promotions.
Because of this situation there's no gurantee a helper will ever become anything but a helper. I appreciate the concept that the better ones will succeed and the less than better ones will fail and either accept that or leave the industry... but when that is the reality what kind of person or employee would you expect to want to embark on that kind of risky career path?
