I dont see how.

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Re: I dont see how.

Originally posted by redfish: "Subtract labor and material and there is $1722.00 left over."
Wow, $1722.00 left over. Thats great, Does your company not have any overhead? Taxes, insurance, workers comp., gas, advertising, accountant, truck maintenance, shop expenses, cell phones, et., etc., etc. Plus you didnt even take out a permit fee from your $1722.00. So how much of your overhead is $1722.00 going to cover? Your profit will be more like $300 when you pay all your bills.
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Wow,I didn't know you were our book keeper. $711.00 a day for expenses($1722.00- $300.00=$1422.00/2 days= $711.00), it sounds to me like you run an expensive company, and probably don't wire too many houses GG. You stick with your $10,000 quote and stay home and I'll wire the houses and stay busy. It's a combination of service calls, commercial and residential jobs that makes a well rounded electrician and keeps the cash flowing. You got me on the $50.00 permit.
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Re: I dont see how.

Redfish, Obviously things run cheaper down in Texas. I just bought materials for a 200 amp service (Cutler Hammer CH) ran a total of 571.00, a 250' roll of 14/2 is 31.07, a roll of 12/2 is 41.39, a roll of 10/3 is 96.51. I dont think I need to go on about materials, Hourly rates: Licensed electrician will require at least 28.00 per hour that means a 50% appprentice is 14.00 per hour, that is before benefits,overhead and the rest. I can't get a price for an average 2000 sq ft house under 9500.00 and that is basic code. It's a shame to hear what is perceived in electrical. I can do it cheaper than that guy. It seems plumbers (from what I hear) tend to all be on the same page. Example: Homeowner: I want Brand X cans,EC: I can give you Brand Y for cheaper. Flip side: Homeowner: I want Brand X toilets, PC: Good idea,but I can give you Brand Y for a little more and you can flush 22 golf balls with 1 flush. Heres an idea, lets stop cutting each others throats.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Originally posted by redfish:
electricmanscott said, Any electrician that wires that house for less than the 10K you came up with is a complete waste of the word "Electrician".
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2400 sq.ft. home Rough in and trim out/Myself (master) at $20.00/hr, two guys(journeymen) at $11.00/hr and two guys(apprentice) at $8.00/hr for eight hours can rough in this house for $464.00 labor and $700.00 material, we can trim it out for $464.00 labor(maybe less) and $700.00 material. At $1.50 sq.ft. and $450.00 for the 200A service, that's $4050.00. Subtract labor and material and there is $1722.00 left over. The company took in almost twice of what it put out in labor.
stud696981 said, Hmm........$300 profit for a whole house? I make more then that doing a service change over.
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Wiring houses is an art, not every electrician can do it efficiently. With a good crew you can make money and keep the guys busy in between high dollar service changes and those wonderful T&M jobs. :eek:

[ September 04, 2005, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
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Re: I dont see how.

In my neck of the woods, IBEW journeyman scale is $30/hour, plus benefits of about $15/hour. Then there's overhead. Most ECs bill out in the range of $100 - $140 per hour. Those of us who are one-man shops bill out a little lower, but not much.

I have no idea how someone can put in a 200A service for $450. I did a fuses-to-breakers panel upgrade recently where the materials alone cost me over $250.

[ September 04, 2005, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
 
Re: I dont see how.

Journeyman at $11 an hour?????? Sorry, but this is not an actual licensed electrician. This is someone with a little experience calling themselves a journeyman.

The only licensed journeyman that would work for $11 an hour is someone who had someone else take the test for them and knows very little about electrical work!!!
 
Re: I dont see how.

One more thing, for the GC's that expect a house to be wired for $300 profit.........they can keep their jobs. I have plenty more work out there paying better money.

Those that wire a house for $300 profit are only helping the GC. Have you seen the profit they make on a house?

Yes wiring a new house at a quick pace is an art, but sorry, $300 profit isn't worth starting the truck!
 
Re: I dont see how.

1st, be careful about the union/non-union stuff.

2nd, some of this is about supply and demand. If there is a greater supply of workers than there is demand, the wages go down and vice versa.

An intelligent person can learn about all they need to know in wiring a new home in about 2-3 months. How much is that really worth?

Historically you need to know more to do commercial work or industrial work hence they usually pay more.

Supply/demand is what really determines the price of things. You will see a perfect example of this in the oil market (gas, diesel, natural gas, etc.) in the coming months/years. Buckle up!
 
Re: I dont see how.

What a bunch of naysayers, I have been told that I was a cutthroat and a non- electrician type by bobbyho asked what I was a master at by blackrd. Told I was cheapening my profession and told to commit suicide by electricmanscott.I was told by jeff43222that I don't pay enough for my material and should work for a union(no unions here in So. Texas pal)stud696981, how do you know what the payscale is here? You don't even come close to knowing the facts, and don't you think you should know a few more facts before type up such a harsh and critical post? I have yet to see a single positive item on any of your postsstud696981. All I did was let you all know how it is done here in So. Texas, these are the facts, everyone involved is a licensed electrician. This is where I'm from and where I plan to stay, I do quite well actually. So until you relocate to this area, keep an open mind, don't come off so high and mighty and I know it is going to be hard, but try not to cast judgment so quickly. :)

[ September 04, 2005, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: redfish ]
 
Re: I dont see how.

I agree with supply and demand determining alot of costs. Lets not blanket an entire segment of construction saying it takes 2 to 3 months to learn to do a house. I've been in all 3 faces and would say that is just too generic. The circuitry is the same as well as the basic codes. There have been commercial guys that I have come across that could write their name in conduit but have no idea how to wire a 3way switch. I think that after 4 or 5 years apprenticeship and an additional 2 years of holding a journeyman's license any tradesperson that puts this much in deserves a proper salary. Not 11.00, I can return soda cans and make that.
 
Re: I dont see how.

I agree with supply and demand determining alot of costs. Lets not blanket an entire segment of construction saying it takes 2 to 3 months to learn to do a house. I've been in all 3 faces and would say that is just too generic. The circuitry is the same as well as the basic codes. There have been commercial guys that I have come across that could write their name in conduit but have no idea how to wire a 3way switch. I think that after 4 or 5 years apprenticeship and an additional 2 years of holding a journeyman's license any tradesperson that puts this much in deserves a proper salary. Not 11.00, I can return soda cans and make that.
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Didn't read a word I posted did you? Sounds like you are a really smart guy and an ace electrician. I am a member of this forum to get answers and try to help others get answers, not to be critsized or judged. The original post asked how and I told him how, that's all. Read the original post, and then read my original answer and try not to get sidetracked with the negative responses. :)
 
Re: I dont see how.

Redfish, I never meant to imply that you were less than an electrician. I also didnt mean to call you a cutthroat although you did offer to do the work for someone so they would be able to stay home. I will not say that I have the perfect formula for success in business, I do know that I would like to see my business profit so I can have at least an operating expense fund over and above my salary. No sense in going into the definition of overhead,we all have it, we all pay it and we all hate it. You know what they say,death and taxes (and if you're self-employed;overhead)
 
Re: I dont see how.

Originally posted by redfish:
I am a member of this forum to get answers and try to help others get answers, not to be critsized or judged. The original post asked how and I told him how, that's all. Read the original post, and then read my original answer and try not to get sidetracked with the negative responses. :)
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Patrick I tip my hat to you for remaining calm even though you did get slammed. :(
 
Re: I dont see how.

Originally posted by redfish:
I was told by jeff43222that I don't pay enough for my material and should work for a union(no unions here in So. Texas pal)
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Not quite. All I did was post some information as a point of reference. I said I didn't see how a 200A service could be done for $450. Maybe you pay much less for your material than I pay for mine, but I never said you aren't paying enough.

I also never said you should work for a union. I only posted the wage information as a point of reference. I have never been in a union; I found the information on an IBEW Web site.

Perhaps the cost of living is much lower where you are, so despite everything being scaled down (wages, material costs, etc.), you can still live quite nicely. I'm not familiar with how things are in your part of the country.

I only wondered how it could be done. I certainly wasn't criticizing you or your methods.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Originally posted by bobbyho:
I agree with supply and demand determining alot of costs. Lets not blanket an entire segment of construction saying it takes 2 to 3 months to learn to do a house. I've been in all 3 faces and would say that is just too generic. The circuitry is the same as well as the basic codes. There have been commercial guys that I have come across that could write their name in conduit but have no idea how to wire a 3way switch. I think that after 4 or 5 years apprenticeship and an additional 2 years of holding a journeyman's license any tradesperson that puts this much in deserves a proper salary. Not 11.00, I can return soda cans and make that.
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I'm not trying to put anyone down. We just need to understand that wages are under pressure because of supply issues. The easiest electricians to train are the romex pullers. In general the romex pullers will be at the lower end of the pay scale. The person that can get the work, hire the romex pullers, keep the builder happy and the workers happy is the one that makes the money. That's the way it is and has been. Training someone to wire an industrial plant takes a lot more training than it does to wire a house. No slur, just an observation.

If someone works in a grocery store and starts out stocking shelves and moves to cashiering and stocking shelves, works for 20 years at the same store, should they make significantly more than someone else that came in last year and does the same job as well or better?

The 50's are gone.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Patrick, I never said you should commit suicide. I did say that I would. And at those wages, I would. I also feel that those wages do cheapen our profession. Not slamming you personally but I do think it is true. We as electricians are trained professionals and should be paid as such.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Redfish,

I was not slamming you, I was simply saying for $300 per house any GC out there can keep there work.

As far as $11 an hour for a journeyman, I will say they can't be much working for that in any market. If they were a licensed journeyman they would go else where for better money, sorry but a $11 an hour isn't anything for a mastered skill.
 
Re: I dont see how.

It has been said on this form may of times and I will bring it up again, we all know what we are worth.

I know my work is worth more than $300 per house and I know the journeymen working for me are worth a lot more then $11 per hour.
 
Re: I dont see how.

I was not slamming you, I was simply saying for $300 per house any GC out there can keep there work.
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stud696981, I think Bob hit the nail on the head.
It is very tough to compare wages from one area to another. I live very near electricmanscott and what he says is 100% correct for this area.
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It seems to me that pay scales and material costs as well as the cost of living are quite a bit different in different parts of our great country. We all love and live in our separate parts of the country, but have chosen a proud profession for a living. I understand all of your concerns and did not mean to ruffle any feathers. I take more from this forum then I leave and really appreciate the knowledge. Thanks gentlemen. :)
 
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