I hate relying on reps for switchboard layouts

[Strathead]

Do not call me a fraud. I am just following the rules. Here's a quote for the NYS Department of Education:

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12. Can an entity not authorized to provide professional engineering or land surveying services in New York, such as a general contractor, subcontract with a licensed professional engineer or land surveyor in order to provide such services?​

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No. An entity not authorized to provide professional engineering and/or land surveying services, such as a general contractor, can not subcontract with a licensed professional engineer or land surveyor in order to provide professional services to a third party client. The basis for professional regulation is that the service of the professional must be provided directly from the professional to the client without any unlicensed third party between the client and the professional. This unlicensed third party may have other interests (such as financial) that could jeopardize the level and/or quality of the professional service received by the client.​

What exactly do you consider "Engineering services?" You spec out a 3000A free standing switchboard, based on Square D. We propose based on Eaton. Eaton comes back and in order to fit, we need to shift the gear 2 feet to the left. You forgot to account for the space needed for the surge protection, we propose relocating panel A across the room, or using combined panel/transformers to save space. You are still the Engineer of record, so based on sketches you submit redesigned room layout.

On the other hand, calling you a fraud is entirely uncalled for. There are tons of reasons to spec out only one manufacturer of equipment. Match existing comes immediately to mind. Coordination study another. But at the same time, trying to achieve a design in an existing building with no change orders is a pipe dream. The up front cost is much higher. Just because you are the final say on the "design" doesn't mean you can't rely on the contractor to help with economical solutions.

 

[MyCleveland]

Wow, there is some animosity through this thread. Curt didn't say an EC is better equipped to perform design, he said better at figuring out how to make things work. As a general statement, I find that to be true. We look at things like, how the conduit is going to be routed, the space required for a 3" flex 90 from a transformer, and a myriad of other installation details that an Engineer shouldn't concern himself with.

I believe the animosity is brought by yourself. We are talking about finding a large gear line-up to fit inside of an old building. It is good to know you have countless ways to make that happen.

 

[binwork91]

Are you providing drawings for an entire job or project or just the shop drawings for a gear package ?

It depends on scope of work.
In NYC, EPR drawing is the one required to show one line up to second OCPD and main electrical room layout. The room layout required to show the dimension. So the drawing need to be same as as built to pass inspection, include equipment dimension, just top view.

 

[Strathead]

I believe the animosity is brought by yourself. We are talking about finding a large gear line-up to fit inside of an old building. It is good to know you have countless ways to make that happen.

Sorry that my post made you think I was saying YOU caused animosity. That was my bad typing. Mostly I was referring to one person calling the OP a fraud and to a lesser extent several of the back and forth posts about telling the OP has is doing too much. Then you turn around and incorrectly characterize what I was saying about coordination. As experienced electricians, we look at things from a different perspective than an experienced Electrical Engineer. Over my career, I have worked with many Engineers, most of whom rely on our installation expertise as well as a small handful who assume the "my way or the highway!" attitude. Guess which one provides a better, more cost effective installation for the customer. That is basically what I was implying.

 

[ramsy]

Guess which one provides a better, more cost effective installation for the customer.

OP works directly with clients to specify switch gear without licensed-contractor expertise, or wholesale OEM accounts, and apparently avoids major change orders, and As-Builds, by proofing equipment inventory before ordered.

If architects can competitively bid such project scope, without sabotaging AHJ inspections, corporate accounting may consider that brilliant, check the references, and award the contract.

 

[MyCleveland]

It depends on scope of work.
In NYC, EPR drawing is the one required to show one line up to second OCPD and main electrical room layout. The room layout required to show the dimension. So the drawing need to be same as as built to pass inspection, include equipment dimension, just top view.

Ok…
You mentioned you also provide SCC studies I believe. When completed, is the study SEALED by your office and submitted to the city for review ?

 

[MyCleveland]

Sorry that my post made you think I was saying YOU caused animosity. That was my bad typing. Mostly I was referring to one person calling the OP a fraud and to a lesser extent several of the back and forth posts about telling the OP has is doing too much. Then you turn around and incorrectly characterize what I was saying about coordination. As experienced electricians, we look at things from a different perspective than an experienced Electrical Engineer. Over my career, I have worked with many Engineers, most of whom rely on our installation expertise as well as a small handful who assume the "my way or the highway!" attitude. Guess which one provides a better, more cost effective installation for the customer. That is basically what I was implying.

I simply responded to your statements.

Fifth sentence…I assure you you’re mistaken.
Sixth sentence…OMG. Most EEs rely on you…and the rest are those Dubya guys. Are you copying this stuff from your web page.

Let’s get back to switchboard layouts.

 

[MyCleveland]

OP works directly with clients to specify switch gear without licensed-contractor expertise, or wholesale OEM accounts, and apparently avoids major change orders, and As-Builds, by proofing equipment inventory before ordered.

If architects can competitively bid such project scope, without sabotaging AHJ inspections, corporate accounting may consider that brilliant, check the references, and award the contract.

Does the designer need a licensed-contractor to layout an equipment row?

Reads like the opening in a civil trial.

 

[binwork91]

Ok…
You mentioned you also provide SCC studies I believe. When completed, is the study SEALED by your office and submitted to the city for review ?

Yes.

 

[MyCleveland]

Yes.

And your office does typical plan-spec projects ?
If yes, does your spec place the SCC study on the EC, or do you include it as part of your design?