I hate relying on reps for switchboard layouts

[curt swartz]

I am the engineer, so getting business isn’t my job; someone else in the office handles that.

It’s common for the electrical contractor to hire a third party to conduct the study, as we perform many studies for contractors. A lot of information needs to be provided by them.

Whether an electrical set includes a study or not often comes down to cost. I agree with your perspective.

But the OP said EC's are not allowed to subcontract to EE's in New York?

 

[Tainted]

But the OP said EC's are not allowed to subcontract to EE's in New York?

This is correct. Not sure if there is a legal loophole around it or if there is a legal way to do it.

 

[Knightryder12]

You could be costing the client $$$ by specifying specific equipment. The contractors can get quotes from multiple supply houses representing multiple manufactures.

Lets say you specify Eaton equipment. That limits which supply houses can supply the equipment. That means all contractors bidding the project have to be established with an Eaton distributor or they will not get favorable pricing. It also means Eaton can charge substantially more than they would if they had to compete against other manufactures.

As a contractor I would expect you to do a basic design. Let me select a supplier and manufacture to use.

Typically on the majority of projects equals are accepted. We do not hold any contractor to any manufacturer. We typically design around one, but as previously stated. we accept equals.

 

[Tainted]

Typically on the majority of projects equals are accepted. We do not hold any contractor to any manufacturer. We typically design around one, but as previously stated. we accept equals.

If it's something small like a 20" panelboard, I don't really care which one they use.

However if it's something large I want it to be from a specific manufacturer with specific dimension because I seek them out during design and they provide me with things that I ask for. I don't want to ghost them for projects they helped me with. To me it's not good etiquette

 

[Knightryder12]

If it's something small like a 20" panelboard, I don't really care which one they use.

However if it's something large I want it to be from a specific manufacturer with specific dimension because I seek them out during design and they provide me with things that I ask for. I don't want to ghost them for projects they helped me with. To me it's not good etiquette

I typically try and do that as well. But I do not like mixing manufacturers on projects, that makes it a maintenance nightmare. But in reality we are protecting the building owner and trying to do the most cost effective project.

 

[MyCleveland]

If it's something small like a 20" panelboard, I don't really care which one they use.

However if it's something large I want it to be from a specific manufacturer with specific dimension because I seek them out during design and they provide me with things that I ask for. I don't want to ghost them for projects they helped me with. To me it's not good etiquette

I am sorry, but you cannot seem to get out of bed without stepping in something.

You are violating your PE ethics and you were kind enough to put it in a permanent record..
You have a Fiduciary duty to your client! It is NOT to a salesman that spent 15 minutes plugging your needs into some software.

 

[Tainted]

I am sorry, but you cannot seem to get out of bed without stepping in something.

You are violating your PE ethics and you were kind enough to put it in a permanent record..
You have a Fiduciary duty to your client! It is NOT to a salesman that spent 15 minutes plugging your needs into some software.

First of all, how am I violating my PE ethics? You sir need to get your facts straight and look up every definition for everything that is spewing out your fingers typing this ridiculous comment.

It is not a crime to prefer 1 manufacturer over the other and I always share my final plans with client. I disclose what manufacturer I am using and if they want it changed then I do it. I am not forcing them to do anything. In addition, my clients do not have the mental capacity to specify equipment, so they trust me to do it for them and a lot of them don't care what manufacturer I use.

 

[ramsy]

I am sorry, but you cannot seem to get out of bed without stepping in something.

In post #45 I asked you if removing the licensed contractor removes the inspection process?

You are violating your PE ethics and you were kind enough to put it in a permanent record..
You have a Fiduciary duty to your client! It is NOT to a salesman that spent 15 minutes plugging your needs into some software.

If this joker is doing it himself to skip inspections, then I agree.

 

[MyCleveland]

First of all, how am I violating my PE ethics? You sir need to get your facts straight and look up every definition for everything that is spewing out your fingers typing this ridiculous comment.

It is not a crime to prefer 1 manufacturer over the other and I always share my final plans with client. I disclose what manufacturer I am using and if they want it changed then I do it. I am not forcing them to do anything. In addition, my clients do not have the mental capacity to specify equipment, so they trust me to do it for them and a lot of them don't care what manufacturer I use.

My comments were directly to your post (64).
We each have had our say, let’s see where others fall.

 

[MyCleveland]

In post #45 I asked you if removing the licensed contractor removes the inspection process?

If this joker is doing it himself to skip inspections, then I agree.

I am sorry ramsy…I will take the blame here, but I never understand what you are asking.

 

[Tainted]

I am sorry ramsy…I will take the blame here, but I never understand what you are asking.

If this joker mentions something unrelated to what we are talking about, then I agree.

 

[ramsy]

I am sorry ramsy…I will take the blame here, but I never understand what you are asking.

If inspections can't be avoided, then I don't understand your concern.

My comments were directly to your post (64)

Can you please explain what better choices the client has?

 

[Strathead]

I am sorry, but you cannot seem to get out of bed without stepping in something.

You are violating your PE ethics and you were kind enough to put it in a permanent record..
You have a Fiduciary duty to your client! It is NOT to a salesman that spent 15 minutes plugging your needs into some software.

You said you are waiting for other responses, well I don't agree with you. If he works with a specific manufacturer then that manufacturer deserves to be a little higher on bid day. It is no different than me working on budgets from the conception of the job and then having the end customer go out and get a lower bid on the 100% plans.

 

[MyCleveland]

You said you are waiting for other responses, well I don't agree with you.
I was looking more for opinions from other PE's bound by the ethics rules of their license.

If he works with a specific manufacturer then that manufacturer deserves to be a little higher on bid day.
That is great if you want to pay them, but in a bid scenario no one else will. Be sure to share that info with your customers.

It is no different than me working on budgets from the conception of the job and then having the end customer go out and get a lower bid on the 100% plans.
Unless you were hired onto the project in advance of a finished design or somehow guaranteed payment for your time I do not know how you can recoup your time. Most budgets I have seen were nothing more than cost per sq ft. In your scenario, again how I have seen it unfold, the EC provides the budget along the way of developing the project, but is always price checked by wasting the energy and efforts of three or more additional EC's to keep you honest.

 

[ramsy]

three or more additional EC's to keep you honest.

Yes, it is the owner's responsibility to request bids.

OP was hired after owners consideration, presumably as a rival of other bidders.

The owners somehow prefer this arrangement, so switchgear is either installed by OP's contractor, or by owner's maintenance monkeys.

 

[kingpb]

Typically on the majority of projects equals are accepted. We do not hold any contractor to any manufacturer. We typically design around one, but as previously stated. we accept equals.

There are no "equals", you should always say an acceptable approved alternate.

But you are correct, unless you hold the contractor to a specific manufacturer, the design will need to be revised once the actual equipment shop drawings are received.

 

[jim dungar]

...the design will need to be revised once the actual equipment shop drawings are received.

When I was a sales engineer for a manufacturer, I had a least two projects where my equipment layout was approved but it took more than 12 months for the gear to be ordered. In that time the original equipment was obsoleted so the designs had to be revised. This was fairly common in the mid 80's when UL changed their short circuit rating procedures and wire bending space.

 

[Tainted]

When I was a sales engineer for a manufacturer, I had a least two projects where my equipment layout was approved but it took more than 12 months for the gear to be ordered.

I think it's still this way

 

[binwork91]

I think it's still this way

Lead time is a key factor that contractors consider; they prefer to order any equipment they can obtain with a short lead time, especially after the pandemic. Many contractors complain about the lead time since pandemic.

 

[kingpb]

Lead time is a key factor that contractors consider; they prefer to order any equipment they can obtain with a short lead time, especially after the pandemic. Many contractors complain about the lead time since pandemic.

Lead times for electrical equipment, especially for MV and LV swgr have become the critical path in most projects. We have found using OEM's is the best bet to decrease the lead time. We buy our equipment direct, no reps, and even that doesn't make much difference; generally speaking.