IR image question

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wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
Then you should have used the term "posts" instead of "thread" by saying "this is like a DIY thread" it sure seems as though you are refering to the whole discussion.



I will agree with part of that statement, my post was targeted.

Roger
zog might be refering to me? I'm not a electrician, never claim to be one either! Cheap imager?? My first generation Fluke Ti30 at the time was $10,000 which I got for $6,600. Correct, I'm untrained but I don't do any surveys of any kind. For some things, training is a must but for comparing the temperature the two terminations on a 2P 30A breaker it isn't required. I don't think that PPE or 70E training is required for residential work.

Works good for finding clogs in PVC drain pipe too!
 

charlietuna

Senior Member
The origial poster admitted he was a roof infrared inspector . Now i can understand him finding hot spots with his infrared equipment while scanning electrical equipment--but the important thing is to understand "ELECTRICALLY" if that equipment's temperature is normal ? Being in the infrared business since 1989, we have many times been asked to re-inspect buildings which were scanned by none electrical thermographers. Their reports included many issues of electrical equipment designed to be hot and writen up as problems. Since these reports are subject to review by insurance companies, many customers want them accurate. No reflection on non-electrical thermographers who are only looking for "HEAT" or "HOT SPOTS", but reporting normal operating equipment as "problems" is not fair to the customer, nor the infrared industry. Take a twenty amp breaker feeding an A/C unit cooling a computer room. It rarely shuts down due the heat load and is running at 80 % of it rated amperage, and will apear "HOT" ! Does this breaker require replacement? No, and if you do replace it and wait long enough, it will look exactly as the original one! Or consider what an overload heater looks like on a fully loaded 1000 ton chiller --- looks like it's "on fire" ! And if it gets reported, someone will be replacing it--- that heater goes for about $1200 a pop, plus installation labor and that labor will probably be overtime since "ALL" the heaters will look bad ! Now i'm sure this poster could teach me many things about roof scans, since i have only done a handful and only as favors to a few customers. Same camera but different animals !
 

marcram

Member
I agree, this is like a DIY thread. Why is it that someone without an electical license asks a question he gets trampled but amatuer IR scanning by non certifed people seems to be accepted? I just don't get it. Just because you buy a cheap camera does not mean you should be doing IR surveys without the proper training anymore than buying a voltmeter makes you an electrician.

OK, off my soap box now.

I'm level 3 certified by snell and been doing this for over 10 years. I DO NOT ever scan electrical components, just rooftops.
 

marcram

Member
The origial poster admitted he was a roof infrared inspector . Now i can understand him finding hot spots with his infrared equipment while scanning electrical equipment--but the important thing is to understand "ELECTRICALLY" if that equipment's temperature is normal ? Being in the infrared business since 1989, we have many times been asked to re-inspect buildings which were scanned by none electrical thermographers. Their reports included many issues of electrical equipment designed to be hot and writen up as problems. Since these reports are subject to review by insurance companies, many customers want them accurate. No reflection on non-electrical thermographers who are only looking for "HEAT" or "HOT SPOTS", but reporting normal operating equipment as "problems" is not fair to the customer, nor the infrared industry. Take a twenty amp breaker feeding an A/C unit cooling a computer room. It rarely shuts down due the heat load and is running at 80 % of it rated amperage, and will apear "HOT" ! Does this breaker require replacement? No, and if you do replace it and wait long enough, it will look exactly as the original one! Or consider what an overload heater looks like on a fully loaded 1000 ton chiller --- looks like it's "on fire" ! And if it gets reported, someone will be replacing it--- that heater goes for about $1200 a pop, plus installation labor and that labor will probably be overtime since "ALL" the heaters will look bad ! Now i'm sure this poster could teach me many things about roof scans, since i have only done a handful and only as favors to a few customers. Same camera but different animals !

You're correct. I was just doing someone a favor. I never claimed to know anything about being an electrician, although I do know a little. As I said, I specialize in roof tops, flat mostly.
 

charlietuna

Senior Member
As i said--the only roof tops i ever scanned was as favors to a few of my custormers. One was a historic building and city asked me to find their problem leaks--they had been thru six roofing contractors and never fully sealed the roof. We found the leaks were not on the roof, but in the parapit walls which were running down under the roof's membrain. Another was a lawsuit on a very large building. I found the roof scanning interesting, but very easy determine the actual problem. The leak appears as a "puddle" and the center point of this puddle is the problem. This one roofing contractor kept calling me for two years after seeing the results of infrared .
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
... I don't think that PPE or 70E training is required for residential work.
Really? You believe that? Even if the PPE is determined to be "0", if you are working hot (as a thermal imager would need to do) that still means long sleeve shirt, safety glasses, long cotton pants and cotton underwear.
 
Since there are no similar neutral terminations in this panel you cannot compare this to another connection. You do not have an electrical background you should call someone who does. Even though there are no similar connections to compare to, in my experience I have never seen a neutral connection hotter than a line connection unless there was a major harmonic problem or loose connection. I would take an IR image of the other end of this conductor most likely at a service head. I would say one of these connections is loose the service bug or crimp or the panel lug.

Electric Pete
 
Location
Chicago
Hot neutral and harmonics

Hot neutral and harmonics

Based on the neutral carrying the unbalanced load the neutral temperature should not exceeed the temperature of the phase conductors. The exception is non linear loads typically electronic ballast in lighting fixtures,computers monitors (switching power supplies) cause harmonics. Because there is no protection for the neutral conductor (fuse or breaker) if the neutral over heats a fire can result. Use a current probe to measure frequency 180 hertz indicates harmonics. Bennie Kennedy
 
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76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
If the camera is set up correctly, I would say that would be warranted looking into by a qualified electrician. There are too many unanswered possibilities. Look at post #6 from George............
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
My first Hughes Thermal Imager (argon gas) cost used $12,000.00]
Second camera Flir $62,000.00, The two piece PC with camera with a hand truck to move around.
Third camera Agema $53,000.00
Fourth Mikron $38,000.00
Fifth Fluke $9,800.00

Training all the techs $30,000.00 plus.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
25 plus years at better than the normal rate for a electrician 4-5 days a week and some overtime work, and then there is the second man (assistant). This all helps the bottom line, much less all the repair work this generates.
 
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